“Women Aren’t Funny” with Musical Comedian Sarah Hester Ross
Freya Graf:
This program is brought to you by Pussy Magnets. Welcome. Welcome, my lovely lumps, or should I say lovely labs? I'm so thrilled to have you here in the Labia Lounge. We're gonna yarn about all things sexuality, womanhood, relationships, intimacy, holistic health, and everything in between. Your legs. Oh. Can't help myself. Anyway, we're gonna have vag-loads of real chats with real people about real shit.
Freya Graf:
So buckle up. You're about to receive the sex ed that you never had and have a bloody good laugh while you're at it. Before we dive in, I'd like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm recording this, the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. It's an absolute privilege to be living and creating dope podcast content in Naarm and I pay respect to their elders past, present, and emerging. Now, if you're all ready, let's flap and do this. Oh my god. Is there such thing as too many vagina jokes in the one intro? Whatever. It's my podcast.
Freya Graf:
I'm leaving it in. Hey, my labial legends. Welcome back. Today, you are in for a treat because I've got Sarah Hester Ross, a musical comedian and singer songwriter in the lounge for some yarns. She's just released her new comedy special, don't mess with a redhead, which I watched yesterday and had a good old laugh at. And she also has an album by the same title, which you can listen to basically on all the platforms as well. So definitely check that out. I'll mention it again at the end to remind you and put it in the show notes, but, yeah, highly recommend.
Freya Graf:
And Sarah is basically a shit hot social media star, winner of best of Las Vegas comedian, and one woman show. She's been featured on America's Got Talent and the Doctor Demento show. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right because I'm Australian and I've never heard
Sarah:
of that. Yes. Okay.
Freya Graf:
It is. It's perfect. And she's wrapped up over 15,000,000 streams of her music worldwide with a cool 2,400,000 followers on TikTok and over 260,000 on Instagram. I think she's just about the biggest guest we've ever had on this podcast. So big celeb energy, big celeb energy, Abadene. Oh my god.
sarah hester ross:
I love labia legends. Do you is that is that what you always call your audience? Because I freaking love it.
Freya Graf:
It alternates. It's like labial something with an l. I love alliteration. So it's either labial ledge hammers, labial love bugs, labial losers, like, whatever I'm feeling, man.
Sarah:
That's it. I love it. Well, legend just in general is a great nickname. Wow. Totally. I love that, but then add labia to it, and I'm like, I'm hooked. Totally.
Freya Graf:
Total winning combo. Oh, amazing. Well, welcome, Sarah. Please grab a clit cushion. Make yourself comfy.
Sarah:
I live on a clit cushion.
Freya Graf:
I live on. Literally.
Sarah:
Oh my god. Everything that we we go through, we deserve it. We all deserve click cushions every day.
Freya Graf:
Absolutely. Here. Here. So how'd your tour go? How'd, like, the tour and filming of the special go? Like, I just it's fresh for me because I just watched it yesterday. Maybe, you you know, that was a while ago, but, like, damn, girl. How how'd you feel? It
Sarah:
was a little bit while ago. This was about 3 years in the making. Woah. Woah. My one woman show that I did in Vegas was kind of the start of that, just kinda putting the pieces together. Then I took the show on tour, around the US. I actually, did a couple shows in Byron Bay in Australia too. Oh, wow.
Sarah:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was out there because my main shtick is dueling pianos. I don't know if you have ever been to a dueling piano bar. But, we have a regular that owns a bar in Byron Bay, and he brought me out there, and I worked there for 3 weeks. And then I I did my show out there for, I think I think I did 2 shows, and it was great. It was very fun.
Sarah:
It's my first time on Australia. I loved it. Wow.
Freya Graf:
Can't wait
Sarah:
to go back.
Freya Graf:
Oh, my god. What okay. So just, like, what is duelling pianos? Because duelling to me is like sword fights or, like, jousting. So are you going back and forth with someone?
Sarah:
Basically, yes. It's 2 pianos Okay. And we go back and forth playing songs. And it's usually all requests, so the audience is asking us to, like, you know, play their favorite top 40, songs of the last 60 years, and that's what I do full time here in Las Vegas. I live in Vegas, and that's what I do when I'm not doing my comedy
Freya Graf:
stuff. Yep. Yep. Yep. Far out. Okay. So you have to have, like, the biggest bag of songs up your sleeve ever because people are just chucking whatever requested you. And if you don't know it, do you lose the jewel because the other person or it's not entertainment.
Sarah:
Oh, that's actually quite fun. Now, the dueling is between, like, the the audience, actually. You're dueling for your song to be played first. So there's, like, a cash element to it, and it's it's like a game. So, either way, I don't lose. But, I mean, very not very often do I not know the song because with the Internet today, I can look it up and listen to it. Usually, the the top 40 songs are pretty easy to to learn, and it's really when, like, someone wants to hear, like, a really deep cut
Freya Graf:
Mhmm.
Sarah:
Like Bob Dylan or or even, like, a really hard old school, like I don't know. Shoot. I just forgot his name. The piano man. Billy Joel. My gosh. We get Billy Joel at the time, but, like like, a deep cut of his.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Yeah. Yeah. They're, like, really difficult to play, and I'm not just gonna pull that on my ass. You know?
Freya Graf:
Okay. So, like, how so your full time gig is the dueling pianist vibes. How long have you been doing the comedy shtick then?
Sarah:
I think I've been doing my own original comedy for about 6 years. Yeah. I've been writing for a really long time, which is kind of due to the dueling pianos. Mhmm. For those of your listeners who have ever been to a dueling show, they're gonna know what I mean because we do bits, for, like, birthdays and anniversaries. We do call downs. They're they're called call downs. And so, when I first started doing pianos about, oh, gosh.
Sarah:
It's been 12 years now. Yeah. You ever you ever, like, remember that you've been doing something so long and like, oh my gosh. It felt like yesterday that I started this.
Freya Graf:
I'm Fucking art. Yes. You know
Sarah:
what I mean? Every time I think about that, that's what I I'm like, it's in my gut. But, yeah. So I started writing my own bits for the piano bar. And that's kinda how I got into writing comedy songs. And then, during the pandemic, when I lost my gig like everybody else in the world, I started putting my stuff online, and people liked them. And so I started writing more, and that's where the show came from. I had all of these songs, and I'm a live performer just in general. Social media is kind of where I got my, like, boom of Mhmm.
Sarah:
Like, fandom. Mhmm. Like, people found out about me, but I've been a live performer since I was a very young child. So my first inclination was to put it on stage, and so I did. And then I was like, oh, let's take it on tour. And then Comedy Dynamics, who produced my special, found me and was like, hey, do you wanna do a special? And I'm like, yeah. Let's do that. So it was just it kind of, all happened succinctly, obviously, but, like, in the right time.
Sarah:
But the show itself, to answer your earlier question sorry. I got off on a tangent. It it's been about a 3 year process getting to this point.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Wow. I feel like this is such a predictable question, but I have to I have to kind of talk about the fact that you're you're making it in, like, quite and less so these days, but quite a male centric kinda industry where, historically, it's been harder for women to, you know, like, really make headway because of this kind of outdated trope that we're not meant to be funny as women, and a lot of men are quite put out or, you know, quite intimidated or emasculated or put out by a funny woman. And the thing that springs to mind and, like, I will get back to an actually direct question, but let me just get tangential for a second. Something that springs to mind Of course. You might have heard of this study that found that both men and women listed a good sense of humor as being one of their top priorities when seeking a romantic partner, but the difference was that women in the study defined having a good sense of humor as their partner being funny and making them laugh. Whereas the men, it was, like, having a good sense of humor to them meant that, like, the women laughed at
Sarah:
their jokes them. And found them funny.
Freya Graf:
And And so, like, women preferred men who made them laugh, men preferred women who laughed their jokes. So to me, it's like that I mean, to me, in my relationships, like, it's so fucking important that that my partner finds me really hilarious and laughs at my jokes. I also want them to be hilarious. I want us both to be hilarious and picking up what each other is putting down. And so, I feel like a huge part of me is just, like, not being met or seen or appreciated if, like, someone doesn't find me funny, and that's a deal breaker for me. But, anyway, I'm getting a bit off track. But I thought that was a really interesting
Sarah:
completely agree though. I completely agree with that. Like Yeah. In a sense, if if if I'm with someone that doesn't find me funny, it's it's a it's a turn off for me.
Freya Graf:
Totally. Totally. But I also want it's also great if they're funny. Like, you know, I think both are important. Sense of humor is a little bit more holistic for me than, you know, this kind of binary study with the differences between males and females. But I'm just curious, like, is it a bit of a boys' club? Have things kinda changed a lot over time since you've been in the industry? Are there unique challenges for women comedians that, like, our cities might not know about? Like, what's what's been your experience with that?
Sarah:
Well, definitely, boys club, 100%. Mhmm. I I wouldn't necessarily call myself a stand up comedian. That's why I'm very careful to, and it's out of respect for actual stand up comedians, at the end of the day. And to clear up any confusion, I do stand up bits and materials, that if you watch the special, it's not all music. I do have, some stand up material that is just jokes and just, like, but mostly, it's musical. And, when I first started in the comedy, world, I started here in Vegas. And, people, comics specifically would call me a prop comic.
Sarah:
And that would in mock mockery, they would call me a prop comic because, but I got it. I was like, oh, yeah. That makes sense. I am prop I am using music and instruments to prop up my jokes in the so, like, I am not just standing there with a mic in dead silence. Mhmm. You know? So I have something to lean on.
Freya Graf:
Mhmm.
Sarah:
And that's how I took it. But they were meaning it as an insult of, like, oh, you're not a true stand up. God. So, unfortunately, my first experience in the comedy clubs was not super welcoming and helpful, which I found very interesting because in my brain coming from, you know, musical theater and live stage and stuff like that, the group mentality is very important because none of us can do the shows by ourselves. Yep. The show needs it eats each part. I know. And that's kind of how I was looking at stand up too because none of these comics were, like, huge enough to sell out rooms all by themselves at this point, so we needed each other.
Sarah:
And wouldn't you want to help your fellow comedian to make the show better? That does that was just my understanding, and it's just not like it wasn't like that for me. Granted, I have found other very supportive comedians along the way, mostly off of social media.
Freya Graf:
Mhmm.
Sarah:
So I've never actually physically worked with any of these people, but I've gotten a lot of great feedback from them. But, again, I I'm not a I'm not a self proclaimed stand up comedian. I'm a musical comedian because I know what they do and I what I do is different. It just is. It's whether you think it's harder or easier, people will look at what I do, like stand up comics and been like, oh my gosh. That's so difficult. But I look at what they do, and I'm like, that's so difficult to, like, do 45 to an hour of just straight material. So it's just different.
Sarah:
But as far as the aspect of, like, difference in woman. I my friend explains this so well. He's a stand up comedian, and he says that women have a hard time staying in comedy because of the atmosphere that you have to be put in to get into comedy. For example, open mics are usually held at, like, bars Mhmm. Seedy areas, and the clientele is mostly dudes Mhmm. Going up to try Mhmm. So there's very little support for women, and those men tend to be on the side of women aren't funny. So they're not getting positive feedback either.
Sarah:
So what is their enticement to stay?
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
To stay in comedy if they can't get into supportive arenas. And, you know, I've also have found that there's a lot of women in comedy who will be very dismissive of other women because, you know, they I don't know. They wanna be part of the boys. They're they're they're in the boys club and and, you know, girls coming in looking a certain way or talking about a certain subject is is not part of the the aesthetic of what they have had to do to get success in comedy. So it's, it's it's weird. It's a weird thing. I think it's, but, again, I have had a lot of really positive experiences with comics. So a lot of what I'm saying right now is me hearing stories of my comic
Freya Graf:
friends. Yeah.
Sarah:
Yeah. Because I don't do open mics. I don't I don't really feature for people. My show is kind of like a one woman setup, So I don't work I don't work a lot with other comics. But so I'm getting a lot of these stories from other comics.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Well, I I asked because I've also heard a lot of a lot of those sorts of stories. I listened to you know, over the years, I've listened to a fair few, like, comedy podcast or not comedy podcast, but they're hosted by comedians, and they talk about comedy, and they talk about the clubs and the, you know, like, coming up in that industry. And it just sounds like it can be pretty ruthless. Yeah. Especially for women.
Sarah:
It sounds horrific.
Freya Graf:
And, like, you know, you have to play by the man's rules and and do the kind of comedy and behave in a certain way. It's it's kinda it sounds really similar to women trying to move up the rungs in a corporate environment, and it's a boys club, and they've just gotta, you know, also be this kind of like, have internalized misogyny and play by the boys' rules and, like, compete with other women and put them down, to kind of it just sounds very very toxic, and it sounds like that environment, and that kinda, like, culture is being perpetuated in in that, world as well as corporate and a few other places. Oh, god. What you just have to check-in your skin.
Sarah:
I feel like it's also, it's very I feel like it's very similar to, like, corporate thing and and women getting, you know, shat on for, you know, sleeping with the boss to get ahead or, you know, same things, same things, like, comment, women comedians being taken on the road, with their the male headliner because they are hot or they make jokes about their their bodies or they do the the act that that comedian wants to have for his audiences. You know what I'm saying?
Freya Graf:
Mhmm.
Sarah:
So I I feel like it's very similar to the corporate. And, you know, women are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Honestly. It's just like there's there's no winning in this scenario until, you know, just completely changing mindsets. But that's I don't know if that's ever a possibility because there's always going to be women who disagree with other women too. So
Freya Graf:
Yeah. You know? Yeah. Hey, baby babes. Sorry to interrupt. I just had to pop my head into the lounge here and mention another virtual lounge that I'd love you to get around. It's the Labia Lounge Facebook group that I've created for listeners of the potty to mingle in. There you'll find extra bits and bobs like freebies, behind the scenes, or discounts for offerings from guests who have been interviewed on the podcast. They'll also be, hopefully, inspiring, thought provoking conversations and support from a community of labial legends like yourself.
Freya Graf:
My vision for this is that it becomes a really supportive, educational, and hilarious resource for you to have more access to me and a safe space to ask questions you can't ask anywhere else. So head over to links in the show notes or look up the Labia Lounge group in Facebook, and I'll see you in there. And now back to the episode. God, it would just be literally like a test of resilience and persistence, wouldn't it? Just, like, keep going back and slogging away and getting, like, absolutely beaten down. And I know, like, I remember in your special, you said that you got this feedback that your content isn't very ladylike. And this is just like, oh, my God. Same. It's such a familiar sentiment to me.
Freya Graf:
I feel as though, you know, especially because, like, I swear as well. And I've definitely had men be really, like, put out by my crude, crass sense of humor, and also just, like, confidence and comfortability in myself being that expressive and unapologetic and funnier than them. And so, like, I found it really, yeah, really relatable. And then it made me think about how, there would probably be because I I I can't think of a specific example of this, but not just in comedy, but in in a lot of industries. You know, there'd be these women who kind of to get their foot in the door and to earn their stripes, they kind of play by the rules, and they do some less controversial stuff, maybe, you know, like misogyny fucking sells better, and at least used to. And so they might be, like, doing that sort of stuff to, like, make a bit of a name for themselves. And then once they've got their foot in the door and they've developed, you know, a bit of a following or a bit more confidence, then they start doing more like risky or niche stuff and potentially branching out into some more like feminist content. But it's like Right.
Freya Graf:
I just feel like with what I've noticed, and I'm definitely not an expert, but what I've noticed with, like, comedy and just me moving around in the world as, like, you know, like, sense of humor is really important to me. I think I'm pretty funny. I've noticed, like
Sarah:
I agree. You're welcome.
Freya Graf:
I feel like the and this is, like, totally I'm making I'm like, just I don't know if this is true, but let me know what you think. I feel like
Sarah:
Okay.
Freya Graf:
Because men men identify with being the funny ones, and this is all generalizations. They, you know, they feel like like comedy is something especially stand up comedy, something like more like men will say that they enjoy. Most people, if you ask them who their favorite comedian is, whether it's a male or a woman, they will they will list a male comedian because there's more, like, big, like, famous male comedians. And I feel like because women are very, empathetic, we've learned to be really adaptable. We've grown up steeped in misogyny and, like, laughing at ourselves and jokes that are that we are the butt of. Women fans of of, like, male comics that can be misogynistic, like, we can still really laugh at all of that content. Whereas, like, men, not as not as empathetic, not as good at laughing at content that they are, you know, the victim of or the butt of the jokes. And so, like, when women get up and start doing, like, fucking hilarious content about more feminist stuff and, like, you know, agency over our bodies and things like this.
Freya Graf:
Like, a lot of the topics that you talk about, which we'll get into, I feel like men can be a lot more easily, like, put off or intimidated, and it seems like, oh, you know, like, anytime I watch female comedians, it's like, there's always this joke about how, like, the women in the audience have dragged along their boyfriends, you know. Because they wouldn't just, like, come to that themselves, and then it's always, like, oh, yes.
Sarah:
No man would just come to see a female comic. Oh. That there's no possible way that she could be relatable to men in any way, shape, or form even though we are literally half of the population and, you know, and it's just like, because men, there's no way they can relate to anything that we have to say. It's but you're right. Because women have been doing it for years. Mhmm. Women, they can relate to men's perspectives. Yep.
Sarah:
And a lot of the time sit back and allow themselves to be the butt of the joke and realize that it is a joke. And that at the end of the day, they're not it's not hurting me to hear a guy talk like an asshole about women. It's it doesn't it doesn't do anything. But when men are the butt of the joke, it is it it's like it's like they've never ever, been told these things before. Yeah. Which is utterly ridiculous because it is being said over and over and over again. But I I I do I like to say this a lot because I do this bit, in my, not in my, special, but it, like, when I do live shows. I pick out a woman in the room who has beautiful breasts.
Sarah:
And I'm like, you know, because I'm talking about how much I love women. And if it's it's if I didn't already believe that being gay was a choice, it would it would prove to me because, like, have you seen women? Like, I would choose women every day if I could. But, unfortunately, I am hetero, and, so it is just my lot in life to be attracted to men. But, but and I talk about her tits and stuff like that, and then I like to say, oh, I know men are gonna say, well, that's not fair. You can, talk about tits and not get in trouble. And I'm like, you know what? That you're right. Let's trade positions. I'm gonna run the world for the next 40 decades, and you're gonna be able to talk about girls tits.
Sarah:
Yeah? Fair? Sound fair?
Freya Graf:
Sweet deal. You know?
Sarah:
And it's yeah. Right? Like, I I I'm in. So but it's so but it's so true. It's like they they want this double standard. They want it so badly, but it's but it's like we've already been doing it for decades.
Freya Graf:
Mhmm.
Sarah:
Centuries even. We've been the butt of the joke. Mhmm. And now just recently in the, you know, I don't know, maybe 70, 80 years, women are now being like, Now it's your turn, and men are like, never. Like, what? Oh, brah.
Freya Graf:
Seriously, they haven't had to develop, like, the the the thick skin in the same way. It's like yeah. They take themselves too seriously and feel so, like, attacked and can't relate, and so all of a sudden, it's just like because I think, like, more, you know, women centric comedy is, like, pretty fresh. Pretty, pretty fresh. Like, jokes about menstruation and motherhood and womanhood and stuff like very recent, you know. And, yeah, and I just think, like, the stereotype of a comedian is, like, male. And so we're sort of new we're new to these jokes, and I don't know. I just feel like, west like, women as women, we're we are a lot more nuanced in how like, what we can what we can find funny is often more diverse because we've had to be more adaptable and be in environments with a lot of, like, you know, misogyny or, yeah, jokes that, like, aren't really empowering to us.
Freya Graf:
And then we also can relate to the the female centric comedy. So we can kinda, like, traverse all territory and just be, like, wow. This is, like, you know, take it in context and be, like, I don't feel personally attacked by that joke. I understand it's a joke. I've grown up around that sort of humor. So, like, you know, it's like water off a duck's back at this point. Whereas, yeah, I think men are That's
Sarah:
why I think women women are the best comedy audiences. I really do. I really and I think it's probably because of that that they're that the the nuances, granted when you start talking about, like, abortion and stuff like that, then it kind of tends to divide the room, politics just in general. But, like, women's, like, when you're talking about sex and periods and stuff like that, it's it's or just daily life stuff, making fun of women. Women are used to it.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
And so they could they are good audiences in the in the sense of, like, but I have I I have gotten up to the point where I prefer to have if, like, I go into a club and they want me to have a feature and opener, I always ask for a woman, just because I I wanna promote more women comics. And I I wanna give them a stage if I if I have it. I wanna offer it to a woman.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
So, I'm I've been really enjoying that a lot lately. And then I'm meeting fantastically funny women on the road and, you know, get getting relationships from them and seeing their their their stories in life. I I can't remember her name right now. I probably would be able to look it up. But I was just in Arizona last week, and the feature that they had for me, she, is a ex Mormon. Oh, wow. She's a mother of 4. I've I'm pretty sure she was either in her late thirties or early forties, but she was fantastic.
Sarah:
And I I I loved her and this this coming from, like, a ex religious person myself. I found her, like, Mormon content just absolutely brilliant and so funny. I'm I'm gonna find her name for you because
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Please do. That would make for such good content. And I'm always just so much so extra super duper impressed when I hear someone's come from a really strict religious background, and then they've, like, shirk that and wound up making jokes about it and doing something so completely opposite like comedy. Like, fuck. That's just so impressive to me. Because that would just take the most insane amount of courage, you know?
Sarah:
Stephanie Morris is her name. Nice. And and that's that's that's a prime, I struggle with that because I still have family, still very heavily in the the the church and their religious beliefs, that very heavily disagree with what I stand for now.
Freya Graf:
And,
Sarah:
you know, and that that's tough. It's it's really tough, to I have their love, but I definitely do not have their support, like undying support. I'm not I and I can relate to Yeah. Yeah. And it's and that's that's always hard to experience or remember that, you know, the my family wouldn't like what I say. Yeah. They would not find it funny. And so that's it's rough.
Sarah:
It's too ridiculous. When I meet other comics like that that are doing stuff like that and and talking about their experience, and with their family still alive and probably still believing it. It's brave. Oh my
Freya Graf:
god. Enormous. Because, like, it's such a it's a big sacrifice you have to be willing to make when you choose this this life. And you, you know, you kind of have to be pretty out there with it. You're not gonna make a living off it unless you become well known, and therefore, people hear you Mhmm. Talking about this stuff. Like, I have, it it's not quite the same, but with my line of work, it was definitely, like, a pretty pretty hectic journey to, like, embrace, like, oh, I'm a sex educator and a sex coach, and I massage vaginas for a living, and teach people how to have orgasms, and, like, my family would not start, not start about that, but I'm not, like, you know, getting up on stage and and making, like, jokes about, you know, the religion that they believe in. Like, it's sort of not quite the same, but definitely I understand that feeling of, like, oh, okay.
Freya Graf:
Like, I have to choose 1 or the other, and I've got to, like, step into this. And just everything that comes out of my mouth on social media or on my podcast, I have to just, in the back of my mind, be aware that, like, maybe my uncle or my mom is gonna hear this, and it's gonna make them fucking uncomfortable. And, like, there's, you know, I'm fighting against, like, so much conditioned and programmed shame and suppression of sexuality and everything like that, that the, the kind of final frontier of, like, me dealing with my own shame and stepping into this work was, like, coming out to my family. Like, this is what I do. This is what I stand for. This is important to me. And, you know, like, it's not it's not easy. It's really it's really uncomfortable.
Freya Graf:
And, like, I just find it so incredibly courageous because what else is like like, that's huge. That is absolutely huge to, to be publicly talking about something knowing that, like, your family, you know, who you've kind of grown up, like, one way or another in your family, you're kinda groomed to, like, wanna be accepted by them and wanna be approved of and impress them and do the right thing by your parents or your religion or whatever. So you're going against some, like, really, really, really, really strong kind of, you know, conditioning, really. So I think it's so courageous.
Sarah:
I love I love that you use the word groomed because it's so true. Yeah. And it's so people it's it's a it's a tough pill to swallow. It is. But we are all groomed
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
By our parents. And we're all groomed by the religion that we are Yep. And it's it's such a negative way to say it, but we that we were forced into without our permission. Mhmm. You know, I was forced to go to church. Yeah. It didn't feel that way because, like you said, I wanted to please my parents. And my parents were my parents believed this, and I loved them, and I believed them.
Sarah:
So I'm going to believe them. Totally. That's just how it works. We are all groomed, and I love that you use that word. And I and I think that we use it more because I feel like that helps us understand when people to not do that anymore and not agree with what they have been groomed or taught to believe and think, as a young child. And the and, it it kind of takes the shame out of it. If you talk about it in a way that you were groomed against your will, and every all of us were every single one of us were groomed in a way because our parents have this belief. And I'm talking liberals, like, I'm talking every which wayside.
Sarah:
It's grooming because you're the child doesn't have a say in it. Yeah. And the parents are thinking they're doing their best because they believe it. So it's not in a it's not in a malicious net, like, malicious way, but it is at the bottom line grooming. And so then when we realized that we were groomed against our will, then it's less shameful to not believe those things as an adult or coming into our own our own thoughts, it then it's like, oh, no, no, no. That was against my will. And now I am fully formed in my opinions and thoughts. And now it's okay that I think this.
Sarah:
Yeah. It's okay that, you know, I'm overtly sexual. It's okay that I wanna be more experimental and it's okay that I don't believe the things that my parents believe anymore. So I just I love that you use the word groom because I think it's real it's, I think it's and it's a taboo word because, you know, it's it's popular to talk about, you know
Freya Graf:
Pedophiles, groom. You know?
Sarah:
Yeah. Pedophiles groom. And, you know, drag queens or grooming kids, they're not. But that's what that's the big topic of conversation on social media.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
And, and it's like, no. You know who are is grooming children? Religion, like churches.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
They're grooming. Oof. And so it's like I I just feel like that is such an important thing when especially when talking about shame and coming out of that groom coming out of that grooming and realizing that this is it what you're doing is not shameful. It's growing. It's coming into your own.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. So And I think like it it really kind of emphasizes that it's very it's very powerful and potent. Like, you you've been groomed from a young age in your formative years when you you knew no better. And it was, like, it was, you know, the biggest influence on you for the longest time. So, of course, it's gonna feel sickening and visceral and like you're doing the most wrong thing. Like, there's gonna be this really yucky transition period where you're questioning, like, oh, my God. And it takes so much courage to step out of that, because, like, that that level of, like, deep programming from your, like, caregivers that you are literally hardwired to wanna belong to and impress because your survival depends on it. You know, stepping outside of that, that's fucking huge.
Freya Graf:
And so if if you have, like, that's just so courageous, and I feel like, you know, people should be so proud to have been able to, like, sidestep that kind of that cycle of just, like, you know, perpetually, like, grooming the next generation. And I guess that's a good segue.
Sarah:
Well, that and that's that's how it hap that's how it works. Yeah. You're groomed, and then you you don't have the opportunity or the sovereignty and because it Yeah. Yeah. I I feel like willpower is not it because people could want to, they just don't know how. Or they don't feel it's appropriate or they don't need to. They don't need to get out of it because they enjoy it. I I feel like I'm or they still believe it even as an adult.
Freya Graf:
Well, they're so sheltered sometimes. They wouldn't even know what else is out there that there is another option that wouldn't have occurred to them because they're so thoroughly kind of indoctrinated. You know? Right. Yeah. And
Sarah:
to have that is opposite their belief or side. Yeah. So, that's that's why I think, you know, people talk really negatively about social media a lot. But I I think it's really good for that aspect. That's true. Hearing other people's, stories and lives and and, you know, all opinions are not great. So it's it's it's not going to be like, heaven on earth. But, I mean, just primarily for me, my experience, I feel like my feminism, has been very white up until this point of my life.
Sarah:
And now because of social media, because of black women sharing their experiences and women of color sharing their their experiences with feminism specifically, I now understand intersectional, intersectionality in feminism, and it is affecting the way that I do almost everything. It's affecting the way that I write comedy. It's affecting the way that I talk to my friends. It's it, it's affecting the way, it's affecting how quickly I speak about something or, you know, like if I have an opinion, like, I I now take a step back and I'm like, okay, do I belong a part of this conversation? Or should I just listen and lift up the voice that I'm listening to? You know? And it's just, that is something that could that had that women and women of color have been trying to make happen since feminism was created, and they could not get white women to do it. And now it's happening because of social media, Because they have a bigger platform, deservably so. So, you know, I I do feel like social media gets a bad rap sometimes. But for and, again, rightfully so because some of it is very, very dark
Freya Graf:
Yep.
Sarah:
And and very terrible and very awful. But the good things is is is there are good
Freya Graf:
things that coming from us. Yeah. Totally. I mean, pros and cons as as always. I can get pretty, like
Sarah:
Yeah.
Freya Graf:
Doom and gloom about social media, and I'm pretty, like, pretty I I I don't use it a lot. I'm a bit of a a crowd Luddite. Probably good for your mental health. Well, that's it. It's like, I don't need any I don't need my mental health to have any more things kinda dinking away at the armor there. I'm like on the fucking edge. But, I do agree with you there. Like, it is really incredible for that side of things, like education and seeing different different perspectives and life experiences.
Freya Graf:
And it's it's it's a really amazing resource if it's used for that. So, yeah, totally agree. And I guess, like, talking about all this stuff is a really great segue to my segment, get pregnant and die, where I ask my guests if they have, like, a story around their sex ed. And I mean, if you were brought up religiously, I'm sure it's a familiar story. Tell me, like, how did your sex ed, you know, fail you? Was there some, like, amazing, like, cool auntie that, like, managed to have a great chat with you? Like, what what what are we working with? Don't have sex because you will get pregnant. End of the hospital. Don't have sex in missionary position. Don't don't have sex standing up.
Freya Graf:
Just don't do it. Promise?
Sarah:
Unfortunately, no on the anti. You know, my my experience with sex is is is very normal for religion and Christianity, just in general. I was, I got married at a very young age. Oh. I was 21
Freya Graf:
Oh, no. And I
Sarah:
was a virgin.
Freya Graf:
Oh, okay. Wow. Damn.
Sarah:
And he was a virgin as well. We courted and did all that stuff. I mean, we did what? Other stuff. It's called courting, meaning, like, we didn't date. We were, like, very above board, you know, and he he he he's not dead. We're just divorced. I was gonna say he was, and I was like, I I always have to stop myself because I'm like, he's not dead, sir. He's Jewish.
Sarah:
And so my dad, was Jewish as well. And so but I was raised in the Christian church. My mom is Christian, and we celebrated Passover and Hanukkah, but I was very heavily involved in, like, the Christian church. And but when I met my ex husband, I kind of gotten into the Jewish side, and I converted. I, you know, had all this stuff. It was still very, like, religious. So it was, you know, contained
Freya Graf:
Wow.
Sarah:
Into it. It just, like, different outcomes, I guess. Anyway, but yeah. So we were both virgins. And so it was the blind leading the blind. You know? We knew what felt good, but we didn't know what good sex was, and we definitely weren't having good sex. The only way that I ever had an orgasm during my marriage was because of a vibrator.
Freya Graf:
Mhmm.
Sarah:
I didn't know what, like, a sexual orgasm felt like until the relationship that I'm in now. So it and it wasn't allowed to be really talked about because it was between us. It was our thing. And neither of us knew what we were doing. So it that was not helpful, and probably incredibly emasculating for him because, you know, he's this, you know, supposed to the leader of the household. And, you know, isn't he didn't know what he's doing. Again, we knew what what felt good, but it was just it was sad.
Freya Graf:
Oh.
Sarah:
It was sad. It was it was what it was definitely one of those things that it's like, man, we were really good friends. Like, we were best friends. He was my best friend. And they were like, oh, that makes a good marriage. That means you guys are sexually compatible. Like,
Freya Graf:
does it though? Does it?
Sarah:
So, I was married for 7 years and, yeah, we got divorced. And then I got into a relationship where I was like, oh, this is sex. Oh, this is good sex. Oh, this is not this is great. This is fantastic. And so so I've only slept with 2 people in my entire life.
Freya Graf:
Wow. That's you. God bless.
Sarah:
And and I don't I don't wear that as a badge of honor. It's just This is how it happened. My story. It's just yeah. It's my story. I am full, like, pro slut. I am all about girls slutting it up, sleep sleep around, obviously, carefully protecting themselves as much as possible. But I just never experienced that in my in my life.
Sarah:
You know, it was never too late. I'm not dead yet.
Freya Graf:
You can have a hoe phase, baby. Maybe
Sarah:
Maybe in my sixties, I'm gonna slut it up, you know.
Freya Graf:
Totally. Totally.
Sarah:
That would be probably pretty pretty fun.
Freya Graf:
I'd love that for you.
Sarah:
But, I do. Yeah. I agree. I was like, now I'm I'm willing to live into 60. Let's see. Oh, wow. But yeah. So that's and, now that's probably one of the reasons why I'm so willing to talk about sex and stuff like that because I didn't.
Sarah:
You know, I I accidentally masturbated as a child.
Freya Graf:
I don't
Sarah:
know if that makes sense to you. Yeah. Like Yep. Rubbing up on stuff. I didn't know that I was masturbating. I didn't I didn't understand that. Yeah. But, now as an adult realizing, I'm like, oh, shit.
Sarah:
I was a horny I was a horny girl.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. I mean, all kids do it. That's like such a, a common kinda especially with the, you know, the clients that I work with that are usually coming with some level of either sexual shame or conditioning, religious background, maybe sexual trauma, abuse, you know, they have challenges in their sex lives now. And so often, I hear that as a kid, you know, kids, we we fucking masturbate in the womb. Like, we touch ourselves because it feels good. We don't know any anything. Like, we don't have any of the context around that. Yeah.
Freya Graf:
So all all kids pretty much like Woah. Yeah. It's like comforting. It's hot. On. It's on. Yeah. Totally.
Freya Graf:
And so it's just, like, such a natural thing, and there is nothing wrong with it. But then what happens is, like, we get shamed by our parents or a kinder teacher or we get caught touching ourselves. And the way that the adults respond to that makes us feel yucky and gross, and as though there's something wrong even though we don't really understand. And so we learn that that is not, you know and so a lot of these clients that I work with, like, never touch themselves, never masturbated after that. Or if they do, they have this, like, shame hangover every time. And, it really impacts their sexual expression and their sort of, like, sexual
Sarah:
Oh, yeah.
Freya Graf:
The relationship with their sexuality and their bodies through adulthood. So, yeah, it's, something I'm really passionate about talking about. So I love that you share
Sarah:
I have I have a song that it's not on my special because it's a, it's a parody, but it's called Vibrators Are A Girl's Best Friend. I'm gonna have to send it to you because I think you'll really like it. But I I'm a huge masturbation supporter. I I really love masturbating. I enjoy it. It's something that I travel with like, when I go out on the road, I travel with multiple vibrators because, you know, I might be in the mood for something else. And so and and I just I feel so sad when I talk to people who are like shameful about it. Because like, in the sense of it's it's really at the end of the day, they think God God is watching or something because you're it's just you.
Sarah:
It's just you and your body and what and and and no one knows your body better than you. So the fact that masturbation is probably one of the most sincerest form of yours of your own personal sexuality is just so beautiful to me because it's like, it's you, babe. It's you loving on you. And no one can do it better than you.
Freya Graf:
Excuse this quick interruption. I'm shamelessly seeking reviews and 5 star ratings for the potty because as I'm sure you've noticed by now, it's pretty fab. And the more people who get to hear it, the more people I can help with it. Reviews and ratings actually do make a big difference to this little independent podcaster, and it's really easy to just quickly show your support by taking that simple act of either leaving 5 stars for the show on Spotify or even better, writing a written review and leaving 5 stars over on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're a real overachiever, you can do them both. That would be mad. If you're writing a review though, just be sure to use g rated words because despite the fact that this is a podcast about sexuality, words like sex can be censored and your review won't make it through the gates. Lame.
Freya Graf:
Anyway, I would personally recommend doing that right now while you remember just to get on top of it and let me know you're with me on this journey. Thanks, gang. Enjoy the rest of the epi. Yeah. And, I mean, I didn't even have a religious upbringing. I don't even know exactly where the shame and self loathing came from, but I felt absolutely horrified at the idea of touching myself and did not masturbate until I was in my twenties and started working on all of my, like, sexuality, shame, trauma stuff. But it's it's crazy that that that shame was was able to really, like, get its hooks in me so deeply, and it was very ingrained because I didn't even have that religious upbringing. And to my memory, I can't even I don't, to my knowledge, have an experience of being shamed for touching myself as a kid.
Freya Graf:
I just still managed to pick up that that was wrong and gross and a dirty part of my body, and it's so crazy.
Sarah:
Well, this is just it's just my opinion at this point. But even if you're not raised in a religious, our world was
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
Our world like, there's no way of getting around it because it's so popular.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
And so even the the the the ladylike vibe, it comes from religion. It comes from and the religion was set up for control purposes. Mhmm. And it's controlling women and what they do with their bodies. And so and how we how they do it the best is convince them that it's bad and it's wrong and they will be loved by a, b and c, whether it's a man or family or God or whatever, they will be loved more if they don't do this. Yeah. So at the end of the day, the creators of the religion, the creators of the atmosphere, the creators of the family have the control. Yeah.
Sarah:
Yeah. So, again, just my opinion, but I I believe that religion is the root of it of it all.
Freya Graf:
Totally. Even the patriarchy, you know, like, it's it's just
Sarah:
A 100%.
Freya Graf:
Like, we were fucked from that point on. Like, there's no avoiding it. We are all completely I know. I know. It's just yeah. Anyway, that's I'm not even gonna get on a soapbox about that. I have many episodes about that sort of thing already. But something that I, I was thinking when you're talking about that 7 year marriage and and it being so kinda traditional and, you know, no sex for marriage, blah, blah, blah.
Freya Graf:
I imagine some of the beliefs that went along with that is, like, sex is for procreation. You manage to avoid having a baby, and I know that this is something I mean, you have a song about this, which I love. I actually, I choosing women choosing not to have children and it being such a controversial fucking topic. And so I love that you have a song all about how you're like, I don't wanna fucking have kids. And, like, don't come at me with all of these, you know, like, oh, but what if you'll regret it? Oh, but, like, what about, you know, one of my favorite lines was it's basically keeping cum as a pet. Yeah. I was like, oh, look, man.
Sarah:
I'm very proud of that one.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very proud of that one. I have to wrote that one down. I was like, damn. So, like, how the fuck did you avoid having kids when you were in that relationship? You were so young, you were, like, still somewhat indoctrinated in that, like, religious framework.
Freya Graf:
May like like, what's the goal?
Sarah:
Well, I I definitely thought I was gonna have kids. I mean, again, because that was what you were supposed to do. You know? Totally. You got married. You get a dog. You have a kid. That's that's what you do.
Freya Graf:
Totally.
Sarah:
I mean, the short answer is, I know this is gonna sound like a bit, but I think I'm barren. I I think I can't have kids because I was on the pill for maybe, like, 2 months of my marriage. The rest of the time, we pulled and prayed. And even in my relationship now, we mostly, pull and pray, and and I've never once had a scare. Yeah. Not even I so Right. Either I'm just, lucky is not even the word because at at one point, I did want to have or I thought I wanted to have kids. And now I'm very, very fervent in the idea of, like, kids are not in my plan.
Sarah:
Yep. And I I just I think that I'm barren.
Freya Graf:
Well, I mean, that's convenient. That's fucking great. Because otherwise, you could've had, like, 5 by now with that first marriage, you know?
Sarah:
I know. And I I think about this all the time, like, damn. If I had known this, I would have been slutting up way
Freya Graf:
more than
Sarah:
what I've been doing. It's like, no. I'm I'm Baron. Let's go, everybody. Ride this train. Ew, of course. No. No.
Sarah:
No. No. I just said I'm a train.
Freya Graf:
Okay. Famous. It's all it's all good fun on this podcast. You can go there. Yeah. Honestly, I say some some pretty raw shit sometimes. I'm like, should I edit that out? Nah. Amazing.
Freya Graf:
Alright. Well, I'm just conscious of time, but there's a couple of I I just wanna, like, give some of your, your, like, song topics a bit of a run because, like, I have, episodes, and sometimes it's a segment that I call sand in my clam, and it's basically, like, you know, I I will just get people on and we'll chat about shit that's getting us and our our clams sandy. And basically, every one of your songs is just such a great example of, like, things that get sand in clams everywhere, especially for people with clams. So, yeah, I thought it would be, like, funny to, like, list a couple of the topics, just unpack it or riff on it a little bit. It's so relatable, especially to my audience. Like, the don't wanna have kids thing, you know, you have a song about abortion, stop giving men microphones. Oh my god. That's such a good one.
Sarah:
About that one. But, I mean, it was just such a I mean, during during the pandemic, like, all these podcasts came up and, you know and podcasts are great. I I think that they're fantastic. But for some reason, men found it in their wheelhouse to put a podcast specifically talking about women's issues.
Freya Graf:
Oh my god.
Sarah:
And it's just like, why? What? I mean, stick stick to your own side, buddy. Like, why? Why is that, even a thing crossing your mind that you you have an opinion about the way women dress and and the women's weight? What? What? And, you know, and I do think a lot of it is clickbait. You know? They're trying to get people to, what do they call it? It's like a rage rage I wanna say rage bait, but that's not the word. I can't think of it right now. But it's trying it's on purpose trying to get people to get mad.
Freya Graf:
And, like, comment on
Sarah:
the video. Oh, okay. And they share and, you know, stuff like that. I do believe that, but some of them aren't po like No biggie. Popular. Just say and it's just like and so I wrote this anthem, and I do believe it's an anthem of, you know, stop giving me my microphone. And it goes back to the topic of what we were talking about at the beginning where it men were big mad, like, big mad. They're like, you know you know, the hashtag not all men.
Sarah:
You know, this is so blah blah blah. Not and it's like, first of all, bra, it's a joke. Chill out. It's like I'm not literally like, I'm not taking anything away from you. Like, you're taking shit away from me. So it's a play on, topics. So relax. But then, the just the idea of men being the butt of the joke, and they
Freya Graf:
just can't
Sarah:
I can't
Freya Graf:
handle it. Get I know.
Sarah:
Cannot take it. Oh my god. It's Even though they themselves can look at some of these things that men say and be like, that's ridiculous. Like, they're so stupid. I can't believe men actually think even more say it out loud it for people to hear, but they still like, a lot of them again, hashtag not all men. You know? But a lot of them are just, like, they can they are on purpose not understanding
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
What I'm talking about.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:
So I know. It's like a fool. Find it hilarious.
Freya Graf:
It's, it'll it's
Sarah:
And I I have now I wear that as a badge of honor of pissing off men. I find it so funny. I love making I love making them mad, and, I I even I even like my because I do have male fans and, men who like my stuff. And they they I really enjoy their perspective
Freya Graf:
of
Sarah:
my stuff. I really do. But, pissing off men is one of my great greatest achievements of my life.
Freya Graf:
Oh my god. A 100%. Because it's like it's like it's the Andrew Tates. It's the incel community. It's those sort of men that, like, will get their knickers in a twist about it, and it's, like, so satisfying to piss off those kinds of dudes. I reckon probably my favorite one of your songs that, is very I've I've heard people, like, talk about this. And I've been like, oh my god. I never thought about that, but totally.
Freya Graf:
But it's like, ball sack's a week, pussies are strong, so ball sack means you're weak from now on. Just like fab June. Mhmm. Because yeah. Like, it's so it's so and and I, like, say, I've gone full circle with, like, okay. All of this, like, slang and language that we use to mean you're, like, a fucking weak piece of shit. Like, oh, don't be a pussy, you know, da da da. I and, like and, you know, using cunt as, like, a derogatory term, all of this.
Freya Graf:
I've gone full circle. And I, like, kinda like using it really ironically around safe people that I know get it because it's kind of retro to be like, oh, that's fucking, you know, like but, yeah, having a song about it, I I feel like it's so catchy that we could actually start to adopt that in our lingo. Like, I am gonna make a concerted effort to start saying, like, oh, don't be such a bullseye because it's also very fun to say.
Sarah:
It is. It is. And, what there was a video on TikTok about this. It's like small, microaggressions for feminism Yes. Of, like, you know, calling I saw this other this girl say she likes calling, like, calling guys shirts tops. Like, oh my gosh. I just love that top. And I'm like, I tried listening to that.
Sarah:
I'm like, that's so fucking funny. And, you know, like, I I started calling my guy friends girl, like, girl.
Freya Graf:
Yep. I do.
Sarah:
Know all the time. And they're just microaggressive feminist movements. Just little recognition. Balzac is one of those. Yes.
Freya Graf:
Yes.
Sarah:
It I I feel Balzac is one of those. It's like, because granted, I I love like, saying, like, man, don't be such a pussy, man. It just hits it hits
Freya Graf:
We grew up with that.
Sarah:
Feels good. Yeah. Because but but but it just doesn't make sense. No. It doesn't make any sense. No. It the only thing it may it makes it, like, relevant is that women are less than. So calling a guy that he has a pussy or is a pussy is meaning he's a woman Mhmm.
Sarah:
Which is
Freya Graf:
Inherently supposed to make him weaker and more vulnerable. Yeah. I know. But ball sacks are honestly, like, if you freaking look at them in the wrong way, the guy's gonna be doubled over just, like, vomiting. You know? It's the weakest part of the body. It's so vulnerable. It's literally just dangling there in a little sack, ready to like, it's it's wild. That's such a ridiculous part of anatomy, and it's way more vulnerable than any part of anatomy on our bodies.
Freya Graf:
So I love it.
Sarah:
I gotta be honest. Like, so utterly useless. Like, they're just absolutely, like, I I do this bit sometimes where I'm just like, guys, we do not care. We if you have male listeners, which I don't know if you do, but, like, if you do, men, we do not care about your balls. We don't care what they look like. We don't care how big they are. We don't care how small they are. They could not be there and we would be just fine.
Sarah:
Like, I just I do not understand the fascination of, like, big balls. I got big balls. I like talking about big balls. I like talking that I have big balls. That's another microaggression of that. We do, like like, that my dick is bigger than most of the men I know. But, you know, it's just like, I will never understand that fascination. And it's just, again, it's patriarchy at its best, meaning, like, strong male anatomy is power and pussies are weak.
Sarah:
And it's just like, fuck y'all.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. I think it's just like a very misguided conflation with, like, big balls and high testosterone. And testosterone meaning you are more manly. You know, like, it's just it's also stupid. It doesn't actually make any sense if you look at the science, but, like yeah. I mean yeah. I love that little, little micro aggression, micro feminisms that are, like, taking the power back. Like, yeah, if someone calls you sweetie or darling, just call them that right back.
Freya Graf:
And lots of little things like that that I'm starting to be more and more aware of my behavior, like a few that I think I saw a similar video, and one of them was, like, when you're walking down the street, like, don't actually get out of a guy's way because it's always us. It's just, like, you know, like, hopping hopping to the side to, like, avoid them. And I've noticed Right. I've stopped doing that, and I've noticed I get bumped into so much so much.
Sarah:
Oh, they're just not into it.
Freya Graf:
And they won't even fucking say sorry half the time, you know? And I'm just like, oh my god. This is wild. Like, I I tweak one little bit of my behavior to not accommodate a man, and all of a sudden, I'm realizing just how frequently men don't get out of the way for a female. Like, what the hell? So, yeah, there's lots of things like that. I love I love, trying to come up with creative little little ones, so feel free to send me any that you see. I'm not on social media enough to, like, harvest all of the good shit, but I feel like you know what's up. So hey. Me again.
Freya Graf:
If you'd like to support the potty and you've already given it 5 stars on whatever platform you're listening on, I wanna mention that you can buy some really dope merch from the website and get yourself a labia lounge tote, tea, togs. Yep. You heard that right. I even have labia lounge bathers or a cute fanny pack if that would blow your hair back. So, if fashion isn't your passion though, you can donate to my buy me a coffee donation page, which is actually called buy me a soy chai latte because I'll be the first to admit, I am a bit of a Melbourne cafe tosser like that. And, yes, that is my coffee order. You can do a one soft donation or an ongoing membership and sponsor me for as little as 3 fat ones a month. And I also offer 1 on 1 coaching and online courses that'll help you level up your sex life and relationship with yourself and others in a really big way.
Freya Graf:
So every bit helps because it ain't cheap to put out a sweet podcast, into the world every week out of my own pocket. So I will be undyingly grateful if you support me and my biz financially in any of these ways. And if you like, I'll even give you a mental BJ with my mind from the lounge itself. Salty. And, I'll pop the links in the show notes. Thank you. Later. Amazing.
Freya Graf:
Alright. Well, do you have a TMI story for us? Because we haven't done that segment yet, and we probably should be wrapping this up soon.
Sarah:
I mean, I was trying to think of a story. And, really, the only one I can think of is that the first time I ever gave a a blowjob to a guy, it was my high school boyfriend. And that's the thing. Like, and your listeners are probably like, what? I thought you said you were a virgin. I was a Christian virgin. Mhmm. I like, no intercourse, but we did other stuff,
Freya Graf:
you
Sarah:
know, that Jesus couldn't see apparently. You know, the joke, Jesus doesn't see the back. I did. I never did anal outside of me. But but that's that. Yeah. It's always very funny to me. But, I was, giving a blowjob to, my high school boyfriend.
Sarah:
It was my first blowjob. It was in his car at and I just remember being so afraid of the way a penis looked. I was so I I think it was it was probably the first time I had ever seen one. Looking back yeah. Definitely. And, I remember him pushing my head down Oh god. To go, like, deeper. I hate this.
Sarah:
And I I threw up all over him.
Freya Graf:
Yes. I can suck at it. If you're a head pusher, you deserve vomit on your cock.
Sarah:
100%. But, unfortunately, I was more embarrassed in that scenario. As yeah. As a grown woman now, I'd be like, fuck you and your head pushing dick.
Freya Graf:
But as a vulnerable little teenager giving you first BJ
Sarah:
17 year old. I know. And it was like, oh, I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed. First of all, throwing up just in general. I don't know why, but it's embarrassing. Why are we so embarrassed of throwing up? Everybody throws up. But it is.
Sarah:
It's, like, even to this day, I don't like my boyfriend watch seeing me throw up. Totally. I don't like
Freya Graf:
It's pretty unbecoming, isn't it? The sounds, the faces, the smells. It's a pretty hectic experience. Yeah.
Sarah:
Yeah. But but we all have, like, a shared experience. We've all done it. And so the fact of, like, us being relatable to it and being able to help and, like, holding back hair.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. But
Sarah:
it's so nice. I I love I love that girlhood, you know.
Freya Graf:
Totally.
Sarah:
But yeah. So that's my that's my story. That's the I think that really is the only one.
Freya Graf:
That's such a good 2 year story.
Sarah:
They're very frail.
Freya Graf:
Obviously They're Love that. Some of them have. So Well, that I mean Yeah. Most of the most of the TMS stories are, like, pretty, they they sound like they were a horrible time, you know, so you're lucky you don't have many of those, because a lot of them are pretty traumatic when it's, you know, like you said, the blind leading the blind, and we're all just figuring it out the hard way, and shit's happening. And we're so vulnerable and, like, mortified because we're usually quite young and inexperienced. So I think you got off lightly, by not having a high face.
Sarah:
I probably definitely did. Yeah.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Again,
Sarah:
who knows? I'll have a I'll have a slutty face at 60.
Freya Graf:
Totally. Totally.
Sarah:
For that.
Freya Graf:
You just, get the clap in a nursing home. Like, apparently, it, it's quite
Sarah:
That is in in The Villages in Florida. I'm originally from Florida. And The Villages, they talk about that all the time. The SCDs are rampant because everybody's just fucking everybody.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. I'm like,
Sarah:
good for you guys.
Freya Graf:
Totally. What else
Sarah:
are you gonna do? What else are you gonna do? Fucking The the shuffleboard and fuck each other, you know? Sounds like a life.
Freya Graf:
Well, actually, speaking of, just before we jump off, you've got a song coming out called STI. Tell me about that because I haven't heard that. It's not out yet, so I couldn't, like, look it up and do a little stalky stalk. But yeah.
Sarah:
Yep. It's it's actually called STD, and I'm gonna release it. Yeah. So but yeah. It's yeah. It's, yeah. You guys call it STI, don't you?
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Yeah. That's like the technical because it's an infection, not a disease. Like, yeah, you can't really get I mean, the PC culture over in Melbourne, you cannot get away with saying STD anymore, baby.
Sarah:
Interesting. Yeah. I wonder if I should change it then. Well,
Freya Graf:
no. I mean, is it still the medical the medical term in America is still STD, is it?
Sarah:
Jack. Jack. Didn't do any research. I did I
Freya Graf:
think it's literal to
Sarah:
no research.
Freya Graf:
I've got an episode on STRs with, a gynae from the States. Pretty sure it's STI over there too. But, you know, like, STD, it does sound better. It's got a ring to it. I think because we were brought up saying that, and it's like our brains are still trying to catch up with, like, STF. I don't know. Does it rhyme with the rest of the lyrics? Because you don't have to change it. If not, it might be tricky.
Sarah:
I didn't I didn't sing SCD once. It's just what
Freya Graf:
it's called. Okay. I can change it. Just for, like, SEO because more people would be looking up SCIs now because that's what they're called.
Sarah:
That's exactly. Yeah. Awareness. Totally. But yeah. So it's a music video about me confronting 3 ex boyfriends giving me, and it's to the it's a parody. So it's to the, melody of fever. So instead of you gave me fever, you gave me chlamydia.
Sarah:
And it's it's silly and funny, but and, you know, it's, it's it's something that I like to do in the sense of taking a very serious topic and putting it to song to to make it easier to talk about.
Freya Graf:
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Sarah:
That is ultimately my goal. And if and when you watch the special, that is a pretty big theme of mine of taking topics such as women's rights, abortion, you know, periods Yeah. Not having children. And because it's, you know, it's a little ditty, it's we're singing and dancing to it. It doesn't seem so bad.
Freya Graf:
Yeah.
Sarah:
It doesn't it's easier to chat about. Yeah. So, that's something I really pride myself on. That's kind of how I would describe myself and am I special too. So
Freya Graf:
Yeah. I think that's what drew me to you because my, kind of, my MO is also, like, I wanna talk about the stigmatized and taboo topics, but I want to make them palatable and accessible because it's still challenging for some people. And so humor is my vehicle for that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think it's I think it's a good way to go.
Sarah:
It's helpful.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Amazing. Oh, so nice chatting with you, Sarah. I'll put all of the links to your work. In the show notes. Yeah. Please. So good to meet you.
Sarah:
Thank you so much for having me.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Pleasure.
Sarah:
This is very fun.
Freya Graf:
Totally. I gotta get more more comics on the on the podcast. Awesome. So
Sarah:
I I could I could give you some names. There are some fantastic female comics that I know.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Please put me in touch.
Sarah:
We'd love talking about this stuff.
Freya Graf:
Yeah. Perfect. Alright. Amazing. See you later, everyone. Bye. And that's it, darling hearts. Thank you for stopping by the labia lounge.
Freya Graf:
Your bum groove in the couch will be right where you left it, just waiting for you to sink back in for some more double l action next time. And in the meantime, if you'd be a dear and subscribe, share this episode or leave a review on iTunes, then you can pat yourself on the snatch because that, my dear, is a downright act of sex positive feminist activism. And you'd be supporting my vision to educate, empower, demystify, and destigmatize with this here podcast. Also, I'm always open to feedback, topic ideas that you'd love to hear covered or guest suggestions. So feel free to get in touch via my website at freyagraf.com or say hi over on Insta. My handle is freyagraf_thelabialounge and I seriously hope you're following me on there because damn, we have fun. We have fun. Anyway, later labial legends.
Freya Graf:
I'll see you next time.