The Art of Seduction and Embodied Lap Dance with Eleanor Hadley

Speaker A [00:00:00]:

This program is brought to you by Pussy Magnets. Welcome. Welcome, my lovely lumps, or should I say lovely labs? I'm so thrilled to have you here in the Labia Lounge. We're gonna yarn about all things sexuality, womanhood, relationships, intimacy, holistic health, and everything in between. Your legs. Oh, can't help myself. Anyway, we're gonna have Vagelords of real chats with real people about real shit. So buckle up, you're about to receive the sex ed that you never had and have a bloody good laugh while you're at it.

Speaker A [00:00:39]:

Before we dive in, I'd like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm recording this, the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation. It's an absolute privilege to be living and creating dope podcast content in Naam and I pay respect to their elders past, present, and emerging. Now, if you're all ready, let's flap and do this. Oh, my god. Is there such thing as too many vagina jokes in the 1 intro? Whatever. It's my podcast. I'm leaving it in. Hey, gang.

Speaker A [00:01:24]:

Just before we jump into this episode, I wanted to offer you an opportunity to access my new mini course for free before I start charging for it in future. It's for people with vulvas and it's quick to complete. It's all about demystifying the female body and pleasure anatomy and getting some basic fundamentals to understand your body better. It's called Pussy Pleasure Secrets, Your Roadmap to Bedroom Bliss. You can grab it on the freebies page of my website or in the show notes. It's a great little free resource to kind of dip your toe in or act as a bit of a taster for my work. So if you've ever been curious about this sort of thing and you just don't know where to start or you want a really quick, easy, accessible, non threatening way to get the ball rolling and start working on this stuff, this is a great place to start. Hey, my labial lovers.

Speaker A [00:02:14]:

Thanks for joining us in the lounge today. We're gonna have a chat about some really simple and practical things that can kinda zhuzh up our sex lives, and our relationships to ourselves and others. And I'd love to chat about it might even end up being a 2 part epi, actually. So let's see how we go. But I'd love to chat about the art of seduction, embodied lap dance, how you can use sensual movement to connect to yourself and to a lover more deeply. And then hopefully, we can get stuck into some really tangible tips about, how to dial in your dirty talk and the different forms that this can take, how to send a good sex or a, you know, a tasteful nude. And today, I've got a specialist in these areas to give us the lowdown. So let me introduce Eleanor Hadley, a certified sex educator, speaker, and writer based on the Gold Coast here in Australia.

Speaker A [00:03:12]:

As an award winning sex and relationships coach, she's renowned for her embodied lap dance teachings and has taught the art of seduction on national stages, including Femcon and Sexbow. Eleanor loves sharing tangible tips on how to prioritize your pleasure, enhance your sex life, and elevate your relationships. So welcome, Eleanor. I'm super excited to have you pull up a clit cushion, get kung fu.

Speaker B [00:03:37]:

Thank you so much for having me. Such a pleasure to be here.

Speaker A [00:03:41]:

Yeah. So alright. Jimmy, so it seems to be, like, your bread and butter or 1 of 1 of your, you know, main main spreads is the art of seduction. You do a lot of, speaking and teaching around this. Can you give us a rundown on what you mean by the Art of Seduction? What are the sorts of things that you are teaching when you do talks on this?

Speaker B [00:04:05]:

Definitely. So The Art of Seduction is a body of work that I created sort of in response to a lot of interest, from people about lap dancing. And so my history is that I used to teach, pole dancing classes. I I owned a studio for many years and would teach hens nights on, the weekend, and we always did the most cheesy sort of lap dance. It was always to Pony, and it was just a bit of an icebreaker, a bit of fun, a bit of a laugh. And when I decided to sell that studio, a lot of my reasoning behind selling the studio was because I wanted to focus less on the performative side and less on the sort of male gaze sort of side where it's external, and I wanted to focus on the embodiment and bringing it back to self and how you feel in your own body. And so I taught, or I did a demonstration of a lap dance at this women's event once in New York City, and it was just the the invitation was if anyone here wants to give this 1 token man that we've brought in for the day, to sit in this chair. If anyone here wants to give him a lap dance and, like, explore, you know, being in your feminine blah blah blah.

Speaker B [00:05:25]:

And I was like, yep. Sure. That's easy for me to do. I'm more than happy to do that. It's really fun. And that was just a fun little exercise that I did at this workshop, and I ended up posting a video of me giving this stranger a lap dance. But it was really different to what I think a lot of people assume from a lap dance, and so I ended up, getting coin my own terminology around this movement and this is where I decided to coin my own terminology around this movement and this practice and call it embodied lap dance and teach the full art of seduction, and it's it encompasses self seduction and then also partnered seduction. And so it's really about, allowing yourself to be witnessed, And so it kinda grew into this whole thing, and I taught a lot of workshops around the country, and have an online course.

Speaker B [00:06:25]:

And it's all just this big culmination of my work that is really focused on you feeling amazing in your body and not so much on the performance of it. Sure. You can share it, and you can perform, quote unquote, to your partner or whoever, but it's not about how they view you. So that's the

Speaker A [00:06:44]:

other section. Amazing. That's really cool because my next question was literally, okay, so how do we go about, like, giving like, how do we ensure that embodiment of our sensuality doesn't devolve into catering to the male gaze. Because I've got, like, a real thing around performative sexuality. It makes me cringe and wanna vom, and I'm like, oh my god. I just see so much of it in our industry in particular. And I've, like you know, I also don't think there's anything wrong with people, doing that, but there's, like, a certain flavor. There's a certain there's, like, a difference, you know, like, a difference between, like, you're saying a regular kinda cheesy lap dance to pony that's very performative, very, like, for the the person you're giving it to, and a really embodied 1 that's not as performative, but more just like you being in your body, enjoying your body, enjoying, like, being present with sensuality and sharing that with someone else rather than doing it for someone else.

Speaker A [00:07:53]:

So, yeah, I'd love to, like, dig into that a little bit more and, like, talk about the difference and how do we differentiate, how do we not fall into the trap of, like, because that happens in sex as well, you know. So often women are just having sex with a guy and it becomes very performative. So, yeah, let's chat about that.

Speaker B [00:08:11]:

I really love that you use the same language as well because I I feel exactly the same. I am always trying to advocate for the embodiment over the performance, whether that be in our expression of our gender roles, in our expression of our sexuality, our actual sex, our sensuality, or a lap dance. And so Mhmm. It's it's a huge pillar of my work is really embodying it. And I think that with lap dance, it's something that a lot of people do assume that it's typically for the other and that we are doing this dance for them and to impress them. And I really like to kind of flip the scripts here and say, it's actually something that you're allowing someone to witness. You're giving them permission, an invitation to see you in your fullness, and expressing yourself, and that is such a gift. And so we don't sort of take it lightly and just go, oh, I'm just gonna, like, dance for anyone else, and I'm trying to impress them, and I wonder what they'll think is sexy.

Speaker B [00:09:16]:

Instead, we get into our bodies, out of our heads, and go, okay. What feels really, really, like, delicious in my body? How does my body want to move right now? And what could I do that really expresses my full sensuality? And then because you are just so in touch with yourself and you're so kind of turned on by yourself, that to view, to witness, to see is magnetic. It's hypnotic. And so your partner is inevitably gonna be like, oh my god. I am just, like, in awe of you, and it becomes this really different energy. And I I play a lot with the energetics in this space because it's so different to this kind of hierarchical thing. People often assume it's the person sitting in the chair that has the power. You're dancing for me.

Speaker B [00:10:08]:

Like, go dance. Like, do it. But it's actually the complete opposite. It's the person who is dancing, the person who is sharing their movement. They're the ones that are in power. They're actually, kind of demanding attention, and they're commanding this room, this space, this energy, and if you don't show up as a good enough lap and you're not present enough for the person who is dancing, then, you know, maybe you don't deserve this dance. And so it really, really is this, this subtle power play between the lap dancer and the lap dancee.

Speaker A [00:10:47]:

Is that cool? I love that. So you kinda touched on it then, but, like, what are some quite practical tips that you would give someone, like, tips and tricks? And I know it's sort of easier said than done, but if you're teaching someone how to, like, go and give it a give it a crack and and go about giving an embodied lap dance, What are the main things to kinda keep in mind to, like, anchor you back in your body and make sure that you're enjoying yourself and it is really embodied and we're not flipping into because it's quite difficult sometimes. You know, there can be self consciousness. There can be overthinking. There can be a disconnect from our bodies. There's a lot of things that get in the way, and, you know, it's so similar in the bedroom. These are the exact same things that I'm up against, when I'm trying to help coach people to be more embodied and present and follow their pleasure during sex. What are some kind of tips you've got for people on how to give an embodied lap dance?

Speaker B [00:11:50]:

Yeah. So, in my work, I teach on what I call the 5 pillars of seduction, and they are, energetics, eye contact, evocation, embodiment. And I feel like every time I list something, I forget the 5th 1. There's another 1. It'll probably come to me later. But I really believe that eye contact is super, super, super powerful. And I know that for a lot of people, it can be a struggle, and sometimes the tendency is to just be like, okay, I'm just gonna, like, dance, but I'll look away, and I'll try not to look at them because then I'll get embarrassed. And so I I play around a lot in my work with this idea of you really commanding attention through your eye contact.

Speaker B [00:12:37]:

So you're demanding that they pay attention to you by looking them directly in the eyes. And I talk through these the 3 different types of eye contact. And so we've got the direct eye contact. We've got the leading gaze, which is or a guided gaze, which is where I kind of control where you're allowed to look on my body at a time, and it's really, really provocative and very powerful in the moment, and it kind of makes the the person in the chair just kind of go, oh, 0 my gosh. I can't believe I'm being given permission to look there or there, and it's really, really beautiful. And then we've got the complete embodiment, the complete luxuriation where you can close your eyes and just let yourself move. And it's in luxuriation when you're allowing yourself to close the eyes down and connect in with your body. You're not closing your eyes because you're like, I don't wanna look at anything.

Speaker B [00:13:32]:

You're closing your eyes because it feels so fucking good to caress your body and to move and stretch and sway. And that is typically the most beautiful magnetic moment when people just fully let go. And so I would really, really encourage people to luxuriate in their body and to allow that sense of presence and, like, connectedness. That's such a beautiful moment because that's going to get you just, like, out of your head into your body immediately.

Speaker A [00:14:05]:

And I feel like that would that would feel for the receiver of the lap dance as though they were almost kind of being let into this really private, intimate moment that you are having with yourself. And they were able to witness that and you were able to feel comfortable and safe enough to allow them to witness that with your eyes closed, you know, not having to be vigilant, not having to pay attention to what they're doing. You're just dropping into yourself. And they have the honor and the privilege of witnessing that, which would be really special. I'm curious how you how you the 1 way you're guiding where they're allowed to look, you know, you're doing that nonverbally, I'm imagining. Like, how do you actually, you know, guide where their eyes go? Are you indicating by where you're touching your body? Or

Speaker B [00:14:53]:

Yeah. This is a really fun practice. When I teach it in person, people have the experience. And so, essentially, what you're doing is you've gone from direct eye contact where you're like, you have to look at me and nowhere else, And then you start to kind of, you know, maybe caress your body and you're moving, and you can take your eyes from direct eye contact, and then you can look down towards your hand and where your hand is going. And that kind of energetically pulls their focus from you to your hand or to your body part. And so you're kind of inviting them. You say, hey. You're now allowed I'm giving you permission to look here, and then we can really play around with it.

Speaker B [00:15:38]:

It's really fun because you can guide them to look like, you know, you're you're bringing your hand over your breast, but then you go back to direct eye contact, and then they'll go, oh, they feel like they've been caught. And it's like this cheeky little playful moment where you're like, yeah. I I let you look look there, but now back to me. Eyes on me. You know? And then when you have this moment, you kinda play around between these, allowing yourself to move, eye contact, guided gaze, and just sort of revolving through those. And then there's this moment where you're like, you know what? I'm actually just gonna completely let go, and you close your eyes, and that's the moment where the person witnessing you, this whole time, they've been like, I just I wanna see all of her, but I'm not allowed to yet. And then you give them permission. You close your eyes, and you melt, and they just kind of have their vision sort of zoom out, and they get to drink you in completely.

Speaker B [00:16:38]:

You know? So you're you're controlling and giving permission. You say, now witness me in totality. And then maybe you come out of your moment of luxuriation with your eyes closed, and you make that direct eye contact again, and they go, oh, like, I got caught. Oh, okay. Yep. Okay. Yep. I'm paying attention.

Speaker B [00:16:57]:

I'm here. I'm present. I'm with you. And it's purely energetic. There's no talking here. It's just through the eyes that we can really, have that kind of nonverbal conversation, and it's it's really powerful. When people, explore it in a workshop in person, in particular, but when they try it with a partner, you know, it's just incredible, the feedback that I get because people are like, I was transfixed. And at the start, they're like, oh, I don't know.

Speaker B [00:17:30]:

This might be a little bit awkward, like, you know, especially if they paired up with a stranger, they're like, oh, I'm not sure. Or even when they're with partners, and they're like, oh gosh. This might be a little bit uncomfortable. I've never really done this before. But the feedback is always like, I I was transfixed. I couldn't look away. I could I, like, I I I've never experienced something like that before, and it's just it's so fun to be able to play with that energy.

Speaker A [00:17:56]:

Okay. So in my mind, like, the thing that I just can't like, that I always get stuck on with this stuff is, like, I can't imagine that many people I mean, maybe I've got a skewed perception because I work with so many women who do struggle with things like body image and confidence and being embodied. But, I mean, how many people have the confident? Like, do you have to do some preliminary work with people to get them to feel confident enough and have the, you know, the body confidence and the ability to, like, stay present in their body when they're being witnessed, because that is a really major thing. That's very, very difficult for so many people. And, you know, I feel like, for me, I've always been, I remember watching as a a teenager, I think. I remember watching do you remember that movie suddenly 30? Yeah. Yeah. And they, like the the couple in the movie do, like, like a lap dance swap for each

Speaker B [00:19:07]:

other. Yeah.

Speaker A [00:19:09]:

I just remember seeing that scene, and that was, like, way before I got into all of this work and, like, healed a lot of my shame and a lot of my stuff around around sexuality and expression. But, like, I just couldn't think of anything worse. I cringed, and I was like, I can't believe anyone could, like, ever feel comfortable enough to do that. Like, that just was my worst nightmare. Yeah. And nowadays, like, I'm I'm past all of that, and I feel very, like, confident and embodied and, you know, quite content with all of all of where that's at. But I I just never have the urge or feel like I would enjoy giving someone a lap dance or do you know, because I still kind of feel like as soon as I flip into doing, like, quite sensual movement, it feels performative for me. And it's tricky to tell if it's, like, still some layer of shame or, like, inhibition that's blocking me or whether it's actually just, like, not my thing and it doesn't actually really turn me on or feel sexy or sensual to me.

Speaker A [00:20:13]:

Because I have spoken to other people as well, like and, you know, a man that I was seeing a while back had kinda mentioned that, he went on a date and they went back home together and, this woman started doing a lap dance for him and he just froze and didn't know what to do and felt really uncomfortable and awkward. And it it was just so performative, and he just wasn't turned on by it. And so there are, like, I imagine some people that just genuinely don't get around it. And then there's, like, probably a massive proportion of people that just feel uncomfortable because of our conditioning around sexuality. And so either the giver or the receiver or both may have some, like, blockages that prevent them from actually enjoying it in the way that you've just described people can enjoy it. Hey, baby babes. Sorry to interrupt. I just had to pop my head into the lounge here and mention another virtual lounge that I'd love you to get around.

Speaker A [00:21:12]:

It's the Labia Lounge Facebook group that I've created for listeners of the potty to mingle in. There you'll find extra bits and bobs like freebies, behind the scenes, or discounts for offerings from guests who have been interviewed on the podcast. They'll also be, hopefully, inspiring, thought provoking conversations, and support from a community of labial legends like yourself. My vision for this is that it becomes a really supportive, educational, and hilarious resource for you to have more access to me and a safe space to ask questions you can't ask anywhere else. So head over to the links in the show notes or look up the Labia Lounge group in Facebook, and I'll see you in there. And now back to the episode.

Speaker B [00:21:53]:

Yeah. So

Speaker A [00:21:53]:

there was a lot in there, but I'll just let you riff on that.

Speaker B [00:21:57]:

Yeah. Absolutely. It's definitely something that, I think it intrigues a lot of people, but sometimes it can feel a bit too edgy. And it's like, I don't I don't think I could actually do that. What if they laugh at me? What if they don't take me seriously? What if they don't think I'm sexy? What if I, you know, mess up the moves? Whatever. There can be a lot of things that kinda get in in the way. And also as the person who is the lap, like, it can be difficult to receive sometimes, and know what to do. And so I think, when it comes to this, exploring this type of movement is going to be the thing that helps you to build the confidence.

Speaker B [00:22:38]:

And so I wouldn't ever really suggest just like, okay. Well, come to my workshop and then immediately go and give a lap dance. So I do the course and then immediately go go give someone a lap dance out of the blue. It's more about this exploration of your own body and your own sensuality and seducing yourself. So I always suggest, you know, trying sensual movement in your own space by yourself for quite a while first. Because for me, you know, III was never, like, just give someone a lap dance out of the blue. I've been dancing for a while. I I knew how my body moved and how I liked to express myself, and I wasn't getting caught up in, a choreographed routine and that it had to be perfect.

Speaker B [00:23:27]:

And so you do need to, ideally, need to bring, bring yourself on this journey of really expressing your sensuality through movement in your own time and your own space. And so for me, that looks like just closing the door, turning up the music, and having, like, a roll around on my bedroom floor and not trying to dance per se, but trying to move or, like, allowing my body to move in the way that feels really good. And then you start to get more comfortable. You start to find different ways that your body wants to move, and it goes from this move into that move, and you'll you'll build up that confidence. And then I would say that, you know, the the pillars of seduction that I teach in my work are very much pointing to you getting confident. So it is that eye contact. It is the evocation, like, really, bringing this person in. And when you make that eye contact in a certain way, when you really embody these energetics, you are kind of allowing the person in the chair to soften as well because they might be nervous and they might not know what to do.

Speaker B [00:24:46]:

But then you kind of look at them with this, like, you know, this really pointed gaze, and energetically, you're like, it's okay. All you have to do is sit there. Just witness me. And you can even say that as well. And so, I totally understand that there can be some discomfort around this, but the thing is it doesn't have to be perfect. And because it's not a performance, it's an embodiment, you can't get it wrong. You know? And in my work, III do tend to teach, like, you know, a a blueprint of a routine or I give some examples of this move could flow into this move. But, really, at the end of the day, I want you to put a song on, and I want you to just move.

Speaker B [00:25:29]:

You could have an outline of an idea of what kind of things you wanna do, but, really, the best lap dances are going to be the ones where you just flow. And as well, I should kind of clarify. A lot of the time when we talk about lap dance, the assumption is that I'm sitting on someone's lap the entire time. But, really, it's more floor dance, I would say. Because if I just kind of wander up to someone and I sit on their lap and I start grinding immediately, you know, all the anticipation is gone. All the intrigue is gone. It's you know, it's too quick. We don't want that instant gratification of like, oh, yeah.

Speaker B [00:26:12]:

Cool. They're sitting on me, because it's not not as exciting. And so most of it is the teas. It's the anticipation. It's that building up, and sort of getting them, like, excited to the point where they are, like, desperate. They're like, I need this person to sit on my lap. I need this person to touch me. But you're teasing them the entire time.

Speaker B [00:26:35]:

And, you know, you're rolling around on the floor in front of them, or you're walking around them. You're, like, grazing their leg with your hand really gently, and you're building that up. You're edging them. And by the time you do sit on their lap and you make contact or you get close, they're just, like, so so turned on. And so it's not a lot of actual lap dance per se, but it's more all the flow, like, and all of the building up beforehand. And that can be like you you could play 10 songs before you even touch them. You know, they'll be kind of like on the edge of their seat. But it's not about, oh, I have to quickly do this choreographed routine, and it's only to 1 song.

Speaker B [00:27:17]:

And it's, like, really, really fast, and then suddenly I'm on my lap. You wanna take your time. That's the entire point. Stretch it out. You know? Let this be a long, luscious, luxurious exploration.

Speaker A [00:27:30]:

Gorgeous. 1 of the pillars you've mentioned a couple of times, I keep, like, missing it. Did Did you say evocation?

Speaker B [00:27:36]:

Evocation. So to evoke.

Speaker A [00:27:39]:

Okay. So what do you mean by that?

Speaker B [00:27:41]:

So to evoke is to sort of, like, bring out this, reaction or this response. And, essentially, this is the tease. This is the anticipation. I just wanted it to start with an e. So you could do evocation. So to evoke someone is to, like, really bring on their turn on. I'm bringing out this reaction, this response that I want from them, And so that is the art of the tease, and the art of the tease will come through. The way that you look at your partner, it'll come through the way that maybe you start to undress.

Speaker B [00:28:15]:

You might take things off. So I'll teach you how to take things off in a certain way that is really seductive, kind of moving forward and back, like, getting close to your partner and then moving away, touching them gently and then moving away. It's that building. We're we're edging them. And so to invoke your partner is to bring that response out where they're like, ah, I need this person to sit on my lap. I need to touch them. I need to get close.

Speaker A [00:28:43]:

Mhmm. Mhmm. Amazing. Alright. So good. I'm getting, like, more and more of a a full picture about, like, what would be involved in in a truly embodied lap dance. I've got a few more questions on that, but I'd love to do this segment get pregnant and die. Do you have an anecdote about your sex education for us? Don't have sex because you will get pregnant and die.

Speaker A [00:29:09]:

Don't have sex in a position. Don't have don't have sex standing up. Just don't do it. Promise?

Speaker B [00:29:19]:

I don't know how, like, hilarious it is, but it was just an interesting thing that I remember about my sex ed is we had this video. I feel like the the teachers didn't really say much, but there was this cartoon sort of video that talked about, like, periods and morning wood and things like that. Yeah. They, like, had, like, a little, like, little cartoon character, like, turning over in his bed, and he had a little, like, tent. Wow. And then, like, they were talking about, tampons, and they had this girl in, like, a white leotard. And then they're like, tampons are great because you can still do all your fun activities. Things like that.

Speaker B [00:30:03]:

Right? Yeah. And it was quite bizarre. And I remember there was this 1 moment where, the cartoons were in a movie theater, and then the picture on the movie screen kind of went black and said the end. And then the actual cartoon kinda kept going, and it it went into sex. And, I I can't even remember what that part was, but the main point was that after we sort of finished watching this, you know, this video about sex ed, our teacher said, why do you think there was that screen, in the movie theater where it went black and said the end? And, essentially, it was because this video was made so that depending on what the school was comfortable with, they could, like, stop it there and not talk about sex at all and just, like, have the first half of the the film only be about, you know, tampons and menstruation and, like, the really, like, I guess, clean version, and not the pleasure. Maybe the morning it was after. I'm not sure. But, yeah, I found that really interesting, and, like, we did have, like, a discussion about it because she was like, yeah, some schools, don't want you to know about sex, and it's abstinence only and stuff like that because it was probably about condoms and safe sex and stuff like that.

Speaker B [00:31:26]:

It's funny that I can't even remember what was in the second half. I just remember that discussion and going, oh, wow. There are some some schools out there that would go, nope. You're not allowed to learn the rest of this. Yeah. Fascinating, I mean.

Speaker A [00:31:41]:

Yeah. Woah. That is wild. I can't believe I've never heard about that. That's Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't surprise me. And it's, like, so hilarious that they've kind of designed it that way.

Speaker A [00:31:53]:

Oh, god. At least you were at a school that let you watch the second half, you know?

Speaker B [00:31:57]:

Yeah. Look, III still don't think we learned a whole lot, and I just

Speaker A [00:32:01]:

I doubt it was very

Speaker B [00:32:02]:

yay pleasure, but it was, like, very stark. Like, either you're going to let them know about sex or you're not, and we give you the option Yeah. Because clearly, there's a lot of schools that would be like, nope. We ain't talking about that.

Speaker A [00:32:16]:

Mhmm. Oh my god. Fuck.

Speaker B [00:32:18]:

What a

Speaker A [00:32:19]:

what a disaster. Cool. Alright. Well, that was an awesome get pregnant and die. Thank you. Absolutely. So let's chat a bit about the benefits and, like, how this sort of form of embodied movement, and sensual expression can help us connect more deeply with ourselves, with our pleasure, with our partners, help us feel more confident.

Speaker B [00:32:44]:

Yeah.

Speaker A [00:32:44]:

What are some of the benefits that you generally see and feel from having a practice like this?

Speaker B [00:32:50]:

Yeah. So for me, you know, my whole my whole business, my whole body of work started with sensual movement. You know, I I had the studio for years, but then I intentionally sold my studio so that I could start sensual movement as a practice. And it's all about getting out of your head and into your body because I really think that the biggest thing that is getting in the way of us exploring and really, opening up to the depth of pleasure that our bodies are capable of is the fact that we're in our head, and we're not connected to our physical body at all. And, you know, I have so many clients that tell me they feel like they're numb from the neck down. They just exist in their head all all the time when they are having sex or if they're trying to masturbate. They're thinking and thinking and thinking, and so sensual movement to me is this beautiful practice that allows you to go, okay. All I'm gonna do now is feel, and I wanna feel what feels good in my body.

Speaker B [00:33:51]:

And, you know, coming from the fitness industry, you know, as much as pole dancing is super empowering and amazing, you know, we were still in the fitness industry, and it's still very much like, you know, the the physical outcome was a lot

Speaker A [00:34:04]:

of the focus, and a lot

Speaker B [00:34:05]:

of people wanted to sort of, you know, get the amazing tricks. And they were really hyper focused on, like, I need to learn the the newest, hardest, most impressive trick every single week, which is really cool and great for your self esteem as well, and your strength and all of that. But what I really wanted to focus on with sensual movement and with this practice of embodied lap dance is that it's not about what your body looks like aesthetically, or even in terms of technique, and it's not about what your body can do and how impressive it is that you can lift this much or you can flip over or whatever. It's about how you feel in your body, and that is such a shift for especially for people who have grown up, like, only going to the gym, doing really linear movement, up, down, left, right, side to side, to move in a way that is completely different and, like, rounded and circular and fluid and flowing and intuitive and with no structure, that can feel really strange, and you can kinda be frozen sometimes. You're like, what am I meant to do? Tell me what to do, Eleonore. And, like, I can guide you for sure. I can guide you through, like, my central movement practice, but it's really about, at the end of the day, what feels good in your body and do that, and breathe into it, and do it slower, and take up space while you're doing it.

Speaker A [00:35:40]:

Man, that, like, taking up space piece would be huge just alone because yeah. Especially women, like, we really have been taught to take up as little space as possible. So Mhmm. That would be really cool, and I imagine imagine it would have a ripple effect

Speaker B [00:35:55]:

into the

Speaker A [00:35:55]:

way that we carry ourselves in the world, the way we feel about ourselves, and then how confident we were in the bedroom as well. Because that's sort of like ebb and flow and that embodiment and that, you know, sort of, like, ebb and flow and that embodiment and that, you know, ability to, like, drop into the present moment and how you're feeling and how you're moving and then kind of, freestyle. Like, just sort of flow and not follow, like, any kind of formulaic routine or whatever is such a skill. And I think a lot of people get in their heads in the bedroom and don't know what to do, or they they fall into a more performative thing where they're copying something they've seen on porn or they're trying to follow certain techniques and, like, give, like, an amazing blow job or whatever, or move their hips in a certain way that looks a certain way for the partner, and and really, like, that skill of being able to actually just follow what feels good in your body and flow and freestyle is so valuable to making incredible love as well.

Speaker B [00:36:59]:

Absolutely. It it's so key. And when you can get out of your head and into your body and just flow, like, that skill is going to transfer over to sex so beautifully. And that's why I really say, like, sensuality breeds sexuality. You know, the more sensual you can be with yourself and every single day and, like, the small simple pleasures, the more connected you're going to be in your actual sex life as well.

Speaker A [00:37:30]:

So for those that feel like this is just way too much of an edge and they're riddled with, deep self consciousness and body shame and insecurities, or even just inhibitions maybe coming from a religious upbringing or or whatever. You know, these people that could just never imagine doing a lap dance or doing this sort of movement in front of someone, like, what would you suggest how do you suggest they start just doing it alone in their bedroom first and getting really comfortable with it themselves before they then share it with someone? Like, are there any kind of, tips? Or is it like, you know, just the fact that maybe this isn't for everyone, and you can still feel, like, the same benefits from doing embodiment practices and sensual movement without being witnessed by someone and and just just keeping that for yourself. Excuse this quick interruption. I'm shamelessly seeking reviews and 5 star ratings for the potty because as I'm sure you've noticed by now, it's pretty fab. And the more people who get to hear it, the more people I can help with it. Reviews and ratings actually do make a big difference to this little independent podcaster, And it's really easy to just quickly show your support by taking that simple act of either leaving 5 stars for the show on Spotify or, even better, writing a written review and leaving 5 stars over on Apple Podcasts. Or if you're a real overachiever, you can do them both. That would be mad.

Speaker A [00:39:09]:

If you're writing a review though, just be sure to use g rated words because despite the fact that this is a podcast about sexuality, words like sex can be censored and your review won't make it through the gates. Lame. Anyway, I would personally recommend doing that right now while you're a member just to get on top of it and let me know you're with me on this journey. Thanks, gang. Enjoy the rest of the epi.

Speaker B [00:39:33]:

Definitely. So, you know, with the art of seduction and embodied lap dance, a lot of people will come to the workshop or do the course, and they'll never do it for anybody else. And it's not about that. It's about the practice of letting yourself, drop in. And so if you're like, I want to start to feel a little bit more connected to my sensuality or to my sexuality, to my body, the first thing I would say is to, to, like, let yourself dance and move in your own private space. You know, put on some song that inspires breath, that can, you know, let you go really slow. It doesn't have to be like pony. It's nothing cheesy or, like, overtly sexual.

Speaker B [00:40:15]:

You know? It's just like, okay. Something that makes me, like, drop in and soften and start to touch your own body. And a lot of people just assume when I say touch your own body, it's masturbation. But self touch, sensual self touch, and, like, massage and just caressing your own body, a lot of the time we haven't touched our own body aside from just, like, quickly washing it, quickly maybe putting like, aggressively putting some moisturizer on. We'll want to be gentle and soft and treat your body like you would like, a lover to treat your body. And so, you know, we love those, like, little back tickles or just, like, a love the idea of a lover just sort of gently caressing us or giving us a massage. Do that to yourself. Allow that connection with your own body.

Speaker B [00:41:05]:

And then as you start to get more and more comfortable, excuse me. No. As you get more and more comfortable, you can start to kind of incorporate movement and touch at the same time. So, like, caressing your body as you're moving and circling your hips and, you know, circling your chest and waving your body, put your hands through your hair, start to kind of touch yourself and seduce yourself, and, again, this doesn't have to be about the genitals at all. It can be the rest of the body. And then, you know, the next step, if you you know, maybe you do that for a few months. You know, every day, you do. Like, you put 1 song on or, you know, once or twice a week, you put a song on and you just flow or a little playlist.

Speaker B [00:41:51]:

And then the next step to start to feel a little bit more comfortable in being witnessed and sort of really feeling fully confident in your body is to do this in front of a mirror, and that can be a little bit confronting to begin with for some people. And, you know, I would suggest starting with just making eye contact with yourself and then letting yourself fully be witnessed. And it's really important in these moments that you are, like, turning yourself on, and you have this reverent energy, about witnessing yourself as opposed to a critical energy. If you notice yourself go, oh gosh. Like, I wish I didn't have that role. Okay. No. Put something over the mirror and just continue on without that external.

Speaker B [00:42:38]:

Because whose voice is that? Like, it's not your voice. It's not your true voice. It's someone else's voice from society or media or family or whatever that is saying you shouldn't be this way. And so Yeah. You know, take it a step back if you need to or start to explore the mirror work and love up on all these parts of your body and, like, see yourself as art. And this is another thing that I teach, when I teach about sending nudes and stuff like that because when you see yourself as a piece of art, you have no choice but to revel in that and be in awe of your form. And so I would definitely suggest this place to begin is sensual movement, self touch, mirror work, fully seducing yourself. And then from there, if you want, if you're like, I am feeling fucking amazing now, and I've just been, like, dancing in front of the mirror, touching myself, feeling great.

Speaker B [00:43:36]:

I feel really hot. Then the invitation, take some selfies. Like, get get that, like, you know, on camera. Put it in your own hidden folder if you want to or send it to someone if you feel the cold, but it's just about seeing yourself as this beautiful piece of artwork and celebrating that.

Speaker A [00:43:55]:

I love that. Beautiful. Mhmm. I just remember this transition. I remember when I was a kid, I wanted to be an actress and a dancer and a singer, and I was all very quite, I don't know, expressive. And I would sit like, as a kid, everything's so interesting and and you're not self conscious yet. And I would sit in front of the mirror and just practice all these different facial expressions and, like, talking to myself or acting out certain, you know, scenes in a play or a movie and Yes. You know, making up choreographed dance moves and, and record like, it's wild because then at a certain point when I became a teenager, I got so crippled with insecurities and self consciousness that for years I was too self conscious to even do anything like this alone in my bedroom.

Speaker A [00:44:46]:

I felt self conscious when there was no 1 there because I could imagine, like, I felt that embarrassment and that, like, shame, and I could imagine what someone would be thinking if they could see me. And so I couldn't even do it alone. Like, how sad is that?

Speaker B [00:45:02]:

It is, and it's incredibly common. So I want you to know It's common. Like, that so many people have that experience, and this is something that I actually have to tell people when I'm teaching. You know? When you're doing this alone, like, remember that you are alone. You can lock the door. You don't have any hidden cameras in your room. Nobody else is seeing you. You don't have to perform.

Speaker B [00:45:25]:

And so often, we are doing that, like, even on our own. We're thinking, oh Yeah. What if what would someone think if they saw me right now? What if there was a hidden camera in here and people are watching? They're not. It's just you and yourself, and you are allowed to be exactly yourself when you're by yourself. You should be at all times, but with yourself, at the very least, just let whatever wants to come through come through. And, like, maybe you look, like, ridiculous, and you're, like, dancing around and, like, punching the air and, you know, looking like 1 of those, those you know those, things that a car sale?

Speaker A [00:46:06]:

Wavy inflatable tube mims.

Speaker B [00:46:08]:

Yes. Exactly. You know, maybe you're looking like that and awesome, whatever, but it it's irrelevant because it's not about what you look like. It's about how you feel. Does that feel really good? Fucking do it. You know? I nobody else is going to know. You could be doing the weirdest shit and, like, pulling some wacky faces. I will never know that.

Speaker B [00:46:28]:

No 1 else is going to ever know that, and it's safe for you to fully be yourself when you're by yourself. And in fact, like, that is going to influence the rest of your life and how you show up as well. So just let yourself be. Give yourself permission.

Speaker A [00:46:46]:

Yeah. And even if it feels, you know, silly or point like, because, like, a lot of the time I'll hear and and I'm I'm, guilty of this as well with different things, that it doesn't feel like there's enough motivation to even bother, like, what is the point if no one's gonna see it? Or if it's not for someone else, why would we do it? I feel a little bit like, you know, I used to be in, performing bands and I would, like, sing and rap and I I only would ever write lyrics if I was writing a song to perform with the band. I never actually just wrote for the sake of it or because I enjoyed it. It was like squeezing blood from a rock actually getting me to write lyrics. But I would do it if it was for something and it was going to be performed and, you know, consumed by other people. And it used to be the same with, like, you know, as a kid, I really liked drawing and doing arty things, and then it slowly changed so that I only really did that if it was for someone else or for a reason, you know, because it didn't feel justified to just spend that time doing it for me or because it it was a, you know, a creative process. It was enjoyable. And so I feel like some people are kinda like, what's the point of Yeah.

Speaker A [00:48:04]:

You know, doing this for me unless I'm prac like this, They're sort of seeing it through the lens of, like, how would this look as a performance for someone else and I have to get this move right and it has to look this way because I want it to be, you know. So, yeah, I would just, like, try to encourage people to remember, like, this is also valuable and beneficial even if no 1 ever sees you dance because, you know, you are worthy of taking up that time and that space and and giving yourself that presence and and that energy. And it's a self love practice. It's self care practice. It's practice in general at being more embodied, at being more expressive, at being more comfortable, and cultivating a relationship and a deeper connection with your body and your sensuality. So, like, you know, it sucks that, like, I feel like I have to list the benefits to motivate people to do it, but in this day and age, like, time is money and we're so busy and we're so stressed and we're so, like, sort of people pleasing and and self sacrificing that it's freaking hard to get people to, like, do a bit of homework where they go and dance to 1 song a day. And that's a common bit of homework I give women. Yeah.

Speaker B [00:49:13]:

But yeah. It definitely is. And, you know, everything that you're describing is this sense of compulsory productivity, and what I call, like, internalised capitalism. And so any time we notice ourselves go, Oh, but will people see this as beneficial? Or I should only do this if it's for something else. What is going to be produced out of this? Like, I'm always just like, boop, boop, boop, internalised capitalism. Like, it's this idea that we must be productive at all times, and if we are not being productive, we are not worthwhile, and we have no no need to do anything as frivolous, as something just simply for yourself for pleasure. And this is why pleasure is seen as, like, this frivolity and this, like, additional extra Indulgence. Exactly.

Speaker B [00:50:09]:

They put it, like, really down far on the priority list because it's not making you money, and it's not, like, creating tangible things to sell and profit off. And so I really see pleasure, especially self pleasure, but pleasure in general as a small act of rebellion in this world that wants us to just be little worker bees, in, like, the capitalist structure. And, like, I I often kind of, like, I end up talking a lot about capitalism because it's like we we exist in this world that sees us purely for what we can produce. And so I'm like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to lay in the sun today, and I'm going to dance around in my room, and that doesn't have to be to create money, that doesn't have to be to contribute to society, you know? Contributing to society is this, like, I feel like we kind of get weaseled into it because it's like, oh, yeah. You wanna be a good person. You wanna contribute to society. You know? Like, oh, where's your contribution? And I was like, well, could my contribution just be, like, my energy and the space that I hold for friends and the the things that I, you know, create not necessarily to continue the, like, kind of capitalist sort of

Speaker A [00:51:28]:

Yeah.

Speaker B [00:51:29]:

System. It's like I I wanna just exist, and we can just exist and, like, be filled with pleasure. It doesn't always have to be for a certain reason. And III do struggle with this in my work, and I know a lot of other sex educators do too because it's like pleasure is just something that should be a birthright, and it's something that you you have access to and you deserve to feel. But so often, our clients, most people, are not letting themselves. They go, oh, but I should be working. You know, I've I've actually got a podcast interview with someone, next week who is really, really high achiever in the entrepreneurial space and, you know, always like business, business, business. What can I do to be working more and more? And she wants to have a discussion about, you know, how high achieving, especially women, in the entrepreneurial space, can let themselves give themselves permission to have sex and to prioritise pleasure, even though it's not going to have, like, a tangible outcome, you know, it'll make you feel good, it'll make you sleep better, it'll make you feel more connected to yourself and to your partner, and you'll have this amazing life force about you.

Speaker B [00:52:46]:

It's good for your immune system, all these things. Right? Yeah. But, again, like you said before, like, I don't wanna have to list the benefits. It feels fucking good. Do it. Let yourself do it. But sometimes we're like, oh, but, also it's good for sleep. Okay.

Speaker B [00:52:58]:

Well, maybe I will let myself have an orgasm. Like, I don't want you to be doing that just because you're like, here's 1 of the features and the benefits. You know? Like, we've got this, like, internalized capital capitalism just running through our veins. It's like, you need to produce. You can only do things if they are creating an outcome. It's like, ah, just enjoy.

Speaker A [00:53:20]:

Totally. Totally. Totally. Totally. I know. I talk about that all the time. This you know, I I like to frame it exactly how you just did as, like, it's activism. Like, it's not indulgence.

Speaker A [00:53:33]:

It's not selfish. It's it's full on pleasure activism. And Yeah. Yeah. It's so important. And I'd love to kinda wrap up the topic around embodied lap dance and and central embodiment and go into, like, part 2 and chat a bit about, like, another element of the art of seduction, which is, you know, dirty talk and what different ways you can do this and sexting and taking nudes and things like this. But 1 little thing I just wanted to, mention and get your thoughts on is, like, my relationship with, with sensual or sexy dance. I have this, like it's more comfortable for me to do that in front of someone else if I'm kind of, like, doing a bit and I'm, like, almost acting like a character and it's so over the top and it's so, like, laden with, like, really funny, like, intense facial expressions, and I'm, like, fully playing this, like, character that's, like, an absolute fucking sex perv.

Speaker A [00:54:42]:

Like, you know, it's just really entertaining and, like, fun for me. And so I feel like my expression of sexuality and sensuality is is quite playful and quite humor driven a lot of the time, and that's where I feel more comfortable. I feel like as soon as there's, like, a really slow song that's, like, very slow and sensual, then I'm like, oh, okay. I'm a bit out of my depth. Like, that doesn't feel good for me. And I've always wondered, like, is that still some, like, shame and inhibitions getting in the way that I can't just be actually genuinely, you know, sensual? It just doesn't really feel authentic to me, but it's also like, well, that could just be another layer. And I much prefer kind of being playful and, like, cheeky and a bit sort of, like, just like acting like this total filthy horn bag. If I'm going to be dancing in a sexy way in front of someone, it's it's a bit of a bit a bit.

Speaker A [00:55:40]:

And then I guess it is quite performative, but, like, in a way that feels fun and empowering for me. Yeah. So I just thought, like, that could be, you know, maybe a a gateway for some people if they might, you know, incorporate kinda role play or just acting like a character just to get more comfortable with with it in the first place potentially? Hey. Me again. If you'd like to support the potty and you've already given it 5 stars on whatever platform you're listening on, I wanna mention that you can buy some really dope merch from the website and get yourself a labia lounge tote, tea, togs. Yep. You heard that right. I even have labia lounge bathers, or a cute fanny pack if that'd blow your hair back.

Speaker A [00:56:26]:

So, if fashion isn't your passion though, you can donate to my buy me a coffee donation page, which is actually called buy me a soy chai latte because I'll be the first to admit, I'm a bit of a Melbourne cafe tosser like that. And yes, that is my coffee order. You can do a 1 soft donation or an ongoing membership and sponsor me for as little as 3 fat ones a month. And I also offer 1 on 1 coaching and online courses that'll help you level up your sex life and relationship with yourself and others in a really big way. So every bit helps because it ain't cheap to put out a sweet podcast, into the world every week out of my own pocket. So I will be undyingly grateful if you support me and my biz financially in any of these ways. And if you like, I'll even give you a mental BJ with my mind from the lounge itself. Saucy.

Speaker A [00:57:18]:

And, I'll pop the links in the show notes. Thank you. Later.

Speaker B [00:57:23]:

Most definitely. I think that, you know, with this kind of stuff, everyone is going to have a different expression, and we can get kind of in the weeds and go, oh, well, am I meant to do it this way, or should I try and do it that way? And we can start to try and, like, psychoanalyse ourselves and go, oh, that maybe there's things in the way or there's layers, rah rah rah. And I think if you just let yourself follow your most authentic expression, maybe have a question there like, oh, am I blocking myself because that feels too uncomfortable, or does that feel uncomfortable just because I don't enjoy it, and have that kind of line of questioning. But, really, we all have different, like, initiation styles when it comes to sex, and, like, the playful is is 1 of them. You know? Some people, the way that they want to be invited into sex and pleasure and to connection is through play and humor. Other people, like, they need to be, feel really, really desired and, almost like they are like the siren. And so you're going to have different things that resonate with you, And so I wouldn't necessarily go, okay. Well, this is the 1 way.

Speaker B [00:58:41]:

The slow and the serious, and seductive is the only way. That's 1 way. And so really, like, yes, find your own. And if you wanna try putting on a character, sure, if that feels natural. But if you feel like that's performative, then that's an indication. Okay. Maybe my style is slightly different, and you can play around again in your own space with, like, what energy feels most resonant to me? Is it the fun and playful and the cheeky? Is it the soft and somber? Is it the kinda dark and stormy? You know? You can lean into these archetypes, and, yes, you can, like, you know, choose a mask to wear for the day, and that can be really, really fun. Or you can go, oh, this is where, like, I naturally gravitate to.

Speaker B [00:59:30]:

I'm going to Yeah. Explore that and let that come through me as well.

Speaker A [00:59:36]:

Yeah. I love that. That's yeah. Perfectly said. And I think kind of where I'd come to it was like, you know, because I'm I'm in nerd about this stuff and I've been, like, I've made up my business for years to, like, dismantle all the layers of shame and conditioning that were holding me back. And so if I feel like there's a little corner that's, you know, been left unexplored or I'm, like, potentially still inhibiting myself in some way, like, maybe I should challenge myself there. But, actually, like, when I think about it, you know, I I don't find it, a turn on or attractive or very engaging when someone's being like that really serious, slow, sensual, sultry, you know, store any of those things you just described, like, that's just not my jam. Like, I find it so sexy and hot if someone's being playful and a bit funny, and it's a bit of a, you know, it's just that's just my flavor, and I think that's totally okay.

Speaker A [01:00:34]:

And it could be fun to explore with some of the other, you know, like the archetypes, I guess, we don't we don't really speak about dancing heroes these days, but, back when that was a thing, I kind of understood how it could be, beneficial to, like, stretch to different edges by by sort of performing or not performing, but, you know, embodying different archetypes. So, yeah, I like that. Maybe just experiment and explore and don't try to have like, you know, try to make yourself do it in the way that you see it done in the movies or in the clubs and and be, you know, just this 1 version of what a sort of sensual dance can can be because it can look all different. And depending on, like, the music and the song, I kind of have access to totally different ways to move my body, different vibes, and different kind of energies that will come through that are informed by the music as well. And so I can let that lead me and experiment with that.

Speaker B [01:01:35]:

Yeah. Music really, really can change the whole energy of the dynamic. Yeah.

Speaker A [01:01:40]:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just about, like, the kind of music I enjoy listening to and dancing to is more uptempo and playful and, you know, like, it's not slow and sensual. So I think that that all plays into it as well. Like, finding your sweet spot with the music that you love moving to and that really tickles your brain the right way, and then that that might be your niche. You know? But, yeah, I've loved, loved this chat. Let's, like, bop on over to part 2 and do, like, a little quick quickie. And, yeah, I hope everyone sticks with us for that because I feel like, you've got some pretty pretty fun practical things to say on sexting and daddy talk and, yeah.

Speaker A [01:02:28]:

So I'll see you over there, everyone. And that's it, darling hearts. Thanks for stopping by the labia lounge. Your bum groove in the couch will be right where you left it, just waiting for you to sink back in for some more double l action next time. If you'd be a dear and subscribe, share this episode, or leave a review on iTunes, then you can pat yourself on the snatch because that's a downright act of sex positive feminist activism. And you'd be supporting my vision to educate, empower, demystify and destigmatize with this here podcast. I'm also always open to feedback, topic ideas that you'd love to hear covered, questions or guest suggestions, so feel free to get in touch via my website or over on Insta. You can also send me and TMI stories to be shared anonymously on the pod.

Speaker A [01:03:18]:

My handle is freyagraf_thelabiolounge, if my account hasn't been deleted for being too sex positive, which, you know, is always a possibility with censorship. But just in case the chronic censorship finally does obliterate my social channels, I'd highly recommend going and joining my mailing list and snagging yourself some fun freebies for the trouble at www.freagraf.com/freebies. Anyway, later labial legends. See you next time.