The Power of Movement in Pregnancy, Birth, and Post-partum

Freya Graf [00:00:00]:

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Freya Graf [00:01:22]:

Hey, my lovely loves. Welcome back. I've got some hot tips on movement and pelvic floor health around pregnancy and birth. We're gonna chat a little bit about before during and after birth for you today because I've got a really special osteo with me who's generously agreed to let me pick her brains. A big welcome to Angela, the founder of The Alife, who's an Osteo and Movement coach, who along with her husband, Marty, teaches a worldwide community of movers, how to move sustainably, and gain new movement skills at any age. And Anne recently gave birth to her 1st baby girl who I just got to meet on on video, all milk drunk from a big feed. And after going really deep into research on how movement can help labor and recovery, she recently launched her newest online program, Movinmommers. to help moms specifically train their bodies for childbirth. So this is an exciting topic. I don't have kids, but I fucking love this shit, and I wanna have kids one day. So I'm constantly collecting little bits of information.

Angela [00:02:30]:

So I'm really stoked to have you here, Anne. Welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to chat about this topic too.

Freya Graf [00:02:37]:

Cool. So we like, just to give everyone some context. We were just chatting more sort of like, okay. So Andrew was saying, look. I'm not a specific pelvic floor osteo, but I am in Osceo. I'm obsessed with movement. I did heaps of my own research and then went through my own birth journey. But I just wanna make sure everyone knows that what we're sharing here is you know, it's Angie's personal experience. And if there's something that you're like, oh, that didn't work for me or that didn't go down that way in my birth or pregnancy, don't don't feel bad. Don't feel like we're saying that that's wrong. There's no kind of, like, one way. And what we'll be sharing is yeah, a bit a bit research based and then also a bit of of, like, personal experience. Is that right? Yeah. Totally. I I think that's

Angela [00:03:24]:

that's one thing. Everyone has a different goal or thing they wanna work towards, or some people have none and just wanna go flow. Everyone's very different when they approach birth. And for me, this was one of my I had my specific thing that I really wanna to work towards, and I just researched and did everything I could to get there. And now that I'm on the other side, I just, like, feel like I just wanna shout from the rooftops that, you know, if you want it, it's possible. Of course, we can't control everything when it comes to anything in life, but we can definitely improve our chances and do and so that we feel empowered when we leave the birth portal, and that's really what I want for every woman.

Freya Graf [00:04:09]:

Yeah. Totally. And I think, like, something to be aware of which any mom will know or, like, woman in general People really love having an opinion on how you birth, what you do in pregnancy, how you parent. Like, there's a lot of criticism and judgment and just people putting their 2¢ in around motherhood. And I've seen this. I've heard, you know, moms complain, like, far out, it's almost like as soon as someone knows you're trying for a baby or they see the baby bump, they just go, oh, that's free game to just start talking at me and being like, oh, well, you need to do this and you have to do this and, oh, what do you mean? You you know, like, even I've noticed among different friends who are starting to get pregnant like, yeah, the the judgment and the opinions that start getting thrown around and Are you kidding me? You're not getting an ultrasound? That's irresponsible. You shouldn't be allowed to be pregnant. You know, there's so much judgement. So much. And it's such a personal thing. So very, like, wary of of sort of that as well because moms in particular really caught a lot of unsolicited advice and opinions.

Angela [00:05:19]:

Totally. Yeah. I experienced this. Like, if you haven't ever figured out boundaries before getting pregnant, you are going to need them and figure out how and that's gonna work for you and find your voice for your boundaries. Like, for me, I really wanted a home birth and even just saying that out aloud to I was very picky on who I shared that with, and even, of course, my family were one that I shared with, and I we did come up against, like, everyone else's fears about how you wanna birth. And so not only you're dealing with your own because, you know, we everything about birth is unknown, but then people are dumping their fears onto you as well, and you have to kind of put up your garden really protect your space. And because -- Yeah. We're gonna talk about it that, you know, it's a very physical thing giving birth, but it's also your mental state, and your spiritual state is also so important when it comes to birth that you need to have those things in place to protect to protect yourself and, you know, keep your space safe as well. And, yeah, I just found just people were dumping a lot of advice. And, you know, and in my research, I would actually then go and be like, that was completely wrong what that person told me. I'm like, I'm so glad that I looked it up because, like, the the there's so much new research as well when it comes to, you know, what how what things affect your birth. And there's just I hate the word misinformation, but there is just so much of people just blurting out the completely wrong thing that's just based on fears and not actually true.

Freya Graf [00:07:05]:

Mhmm. Yep. Yeah. Totally. I can imagine. Yeah. Alright. So with all that said, let's start chatting a bit about movement throughout pregnancy, and I kinda thought maybe we could work our way towards, you know, from pregnancy towards covering postnatal tips and stuff last. So what sort of movement is actually healthy and safe during pregnancy? Because I I don't know loads about this, but I have heard, you know, probably a bunch of misinformation or different opinions. But, you know, I've heard there's certain things like actually, this one actually, I think, is true because we learned about this in Mioni mapping training, but really deep stretching, you know, should be avoided if you're heavily pregnant because of higher levels of the and and it can be a bit dangerous. And, you know, maybe there's new research about that now. And then, of course, there's a lot of people that are probably really nervous to do anything that's I don't know, too high impact or potentially might be bad for the pregnancy. So are there some general rules of thumb that I help to know about when it comes to approaching movement during pregnancy?

Angela [00:08:11]:

Yeah. That's a good question because this is what everyone focuses on first when it comes to moving in progress. Like, what I can't what can I not do anymore? And I think that itself brings up so much fear And then the woman ends up running really scared of moving. And the thing is, like, especially if you've got other kids, you're lifting other kids. You're get doing things anyway. And then when you go to exercise, you're kind of frozen of, like, this very limited set of things you can do. I really don't love black and white rules because I just don't think it's difficult because it's just so many nuances of, like, what are you doing beforehand? Do you have any pain or injuries already in your body that you have to consider And that that kind of thing is really relevant to just as opposed to just taking a black and white rule of you can do this, can't do this. Yeah. And I even found when I fell pregnant and went to look at what exercise was available for pregnancy, it was a lot of just your average exercises, but then with the pregnancy modification. So Don't lie on your belly. Don't do an ab crunch, you know, that kind of thing and or do very gentle yoga. And I was just like, you know, I feel like so we're capable of so much more, especially in, like, your 1st and second trimester. Of course, as you as you go progress through your 3rd trimester, things are gonna start to wind down because, obviously, physically, you've got a huge belly, but there is still so much you can do, but that's okay. Let's focus on so, generally, the things that you can't do, I guess, is first, and I found this on myself as well because I was quite active beforehand. So I was doing a lot of yeah, I guess, more advanced kind of exercises and things like that. And what you'll find with pregnancies, do you wanna tend to avoid more core intensive exercises. So this this in itself is very variable because it depends on what that you're in when you when you go into your pregnancy. But if things like like, for example, I was doing pull ups or stronger exercises like that, and you'll find that when you're doing more core intensive exercises, your abdominal pressure increases. And you may have heard of, like, your rectus abdominis and that linear alpha. So you can as you your baby gets bigger, those those muscles have to split apart to accommodate the growing baby, which is normal. It's completely normal. If you take your pregnancy full term, you're going to get that opening in the in the front of the abdomen to make space for your baby. But at the same time, if you're doing too much core intensive sizes, you can get a thing called coning, which is where, basically, the abdominals kind of poke out the front, and it kinda creates a little point at the front of your tummy. Now that's not great because we wanna avoid that as much as possible because it's going to weaken that abdominal wall. And -- Yeah. -- then we're gonna find postpartum that recovery is gonna be a lot harder. And So you don't just have to think about pull ups. For example, it can be something as simple as getting up from your bed when you're pregnant it's a lot easier, a lot better for your belly to lie onto your side and push yourself up as opposed to kinda doing that abdominal crunch forward that's gonna increase the pressure in the abs and cause that corning at the front of the abdomen. But, yeah, it does depend on your current strength because someone who does a pull up that is fine that really hard is gonna have coding much earlier on than the person who does crossfit every day and is really strong. So that does come with its nuances too, but generally core intensive exercises. We doesn't mean we don't use that core, but we wanna be aware of that abdominal pressure. Mhmm. The second, your guess, is high impact exercise. I mean, if you're a runner and you've been running your whole life, I'm not really gonna tell you to running during a pregnancy because you're probably not gonna do it anyway. But you do wanna be aware that as you go on, you know, core high intensity, high impact exercises has to start to decrease just to protect your pelvis and your belly, and as you were saying, with that relax and hormone, I mean, it's nothing to be afraid of. Relax and hormones is like this amazing hormone that we get when we're pregnant to help, like, our pelvis move. Our our whole pelvis is movable. It's why it's got all these joints there to accommodate to open for our baby to to send through. But at the same time, relaxin is gonna mean more joint mobility. So if you are already a really kind of lax mobile person, it is something that you've gotta be aware of, but it doesn't mean that you can't you should avoid movement. It basically just means if you start early and start strengthening those areas, start strengthening the muscles across the joints, which is a lot of the stuff I work with. then you're able to still maintain that stability as well.

Freya Graf [00:13:37]:

Yeah. That's right. Relax. I think I called it a and relaxing. Relax. It makes you more elastic.

Angela [00:13:45]:

Yeah. So the birth's easier. Right? But then you can hyper extend your joints and things Yeah. And, I mean, look, a lot of the time when you look at the options for pregnancy, a lot of the time it is just yoga. It's like, do yoga for pregnancy, but if you already are have us into that unstable joints and then you're just stretching them, that's probably not gonna help you too much. We're better off stabilizing and strengthening our joints during our pregnancy, which is where strength work comes into it and resistance training, which I think is should not be avoided in pregnancy.

Freya Graf [00:14:17]:

Yeah. Okay. So then in terms of what you should be doing more of, it sounds like, through your, you know, research was all pretty basic, pretty general, maybe with the pregnancy modifications, which isn't super specialized. And sounds like with your move in momma's course, you've kinda gone really deep into very specific specialized movement for bodies that are preparing for childbirth. What kinds of movement

Angela [00:14:45]:

should we be doing and what sort of move many you teaching people to start doing. Yeah. Okay. So this is what I love talking about because this is giving us, like, things to do. So in general, before we even start talking about exercise, walking is amazing because it's a We're we're moving our pelvis. We're creating stability in our pelvis. We're accommodating for the growing baby as well. So if you're just sitting at a desk all day, and you're leaning your back against a chair all day. Your glutes are relaxed. and you're doing that through your whole pregnancy. We're not giving our body a chance to strengthen and adapt to the growing baby. So As our baby grows, it's a mass that's kind of at the front if you think about it, and it's gonna be pulling us forward. So we need to increase our strength, especially in our back body, in our posterior chain. And so I always tell moms who are working to sit on the edges of their chair at times, at nighttime instead of moving from your desk to your couch, sit onto the floor up on a cushion so that your hips can adapt to the changes and the happening through your pregnancy. So I really love walking for that because it's active It's easy. Anyone can do it. It's weight bearing as well. And then when it comes to we were talking started talking about resistance training. So creating strength. As I was saying with the belly growing at the front, we wanna increase our strength in the posterior chain. So things like our glutes, our hamstrings, our back body to help strengthen those areas so that we don't end up coming into this huge anterior tilt where you see those moms on the belly because kind of hanging forward, and their back is kinda going into that big amount of extension. So we're able to counter that and kind of create that better postal plumb line, I guess, or, like, center of gravity in our body to help keep us in neutral through our pregnant And that's really doable as long as you sort of start at the beginning of your pregnancy in that trimester one where The changes are minimal, and you help your body adapt through those trimester as well. And I do wanna say as well, I mean, in trimester 1, it's very different for everyone. It can be really up and down. Energy can be low. We can be feeling sick and nauseous and that kind of thing. And I just say, like, On the days you have the energy, that's the days to move your body. But if you can't move through trimester 1 just because you feel sick, it is important to prioritize, sleep and nutrition over exercise. So there's always time in at when you start to kind of feel better in that trimester too as well.

Freya Graf [00:17:38]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Angela [00:17:39]:

So okay. So So definitely strengthening the posterior chain. The second thing I would say is we're not abdominal port. So as I was saying with the growing belly, we can get that pendulous belly where the belly kinda hangs over if we're not using our core to help support the growing belly. So doing core exercises is definitely important and doing it in a dynamic way. And, also, you're using learning to utilize our core when we're just doing our everyday things, when you're picking up your washing basket, when you're picking up your other child, you're moving from one place to another, starting to remember to engage your core as well. the -- So with the with the core

Freya Graf [00:18:26]:

-- Yeah. -- so because we wanna be careful of the rectus abdominis separating and getting the coning. And people might have seen that. I remember learning about that. They might have seen, you know, you almost get a darkening color stripe down the front of the belly from the belly button down. That's where it starts separating. Is that right?

Angela [00:18:42]:

Yeah. So it's be in the middle of I mean, we don't normally get that separation until sort of the towards the end of the pregnancy. Yep. But, yeah, you do wanna be able to manage pressure. So with that core work, it is important that we also learn how to breathe because if you think about your breathing, that's how we manage the pressure in our abdomen as well. So I normally teach sort of like a candle's breath. So it's a 3 d diaphragm inhale when you're breathing through the front, the sides, and the back of the ribs. And then as you exhale, it's like you're blowing out 30 candles on a birthday cake. So you blow out through your mouth and fully exhale. And you'll find that if you fully exhale all the way to the very end, your core will naturally contract. You're not kind of bracing or bearing down when I'm in core. It's not that kind of bracing bearing down pressure in the belly. That's what we wanna avoid. Like, we're talking about the pressure. It's all about managing the pressure.

Freya Graf [00:19:46]:

Yeah. Okay. So it's still good to to kind of engage your core and try to get that get that all happening, but not in a way that's gonna bed down on the pelvic floor and create pressure and then potentially separation. So I guess just like, yeah. Not all core x's sizes are equal, and they're good for different things. So I suppose that's why you'd wanna do the move in momma's course because it's, like, you know, really specific to like, your needs when you're pregnant. And I guess different stages of the pregnancy, like, in the beginning, you could get away with a lot more, whereas when you're really fucking pregnant, like, yeah, you gotta be super careful because there's so much pressure and gravitational kind of downward sort of pressure on your pelvic floor.

Angela [00:20:31]:

that, yeah, you don't wanna be, like, stretching everything out too much. Yeah. And it needs to be whole body. Like, that's the thing. I think when Just gotta realize when one part of us is not moving well, the pressure or the is gonna go somewhere else. So another thing that I really recommend is, like, upper back, rib and upper body mobility through your pregnancy. because if this area is not moving well, you gotta think all our organs are getting pushed up upwards towards our diaphragm. Our ribs need to act our whole rib cage needs to move as well that it's important that we're keeping the upper back keeping the ribs mobile, keeping the shoulders mobile as well so that by keeping that mobile, we're putting less pressure on our lower back on our pelvis and things like that. So you'll probably find as you go, obviously, it's a little twisting and side burning, things like that gets a little bit harder, but it is important that we maintain as much mobility throughout our whole pregnancy through that area to help with the other areas as well.

Freya Graf [00:21:39]:

Yeah. because it's you know, on one hand, you're wanting to throw out the pregnancy be strengthening and and kind of preparing your body to be carrying a heavier and heavier load and have your center of gravity being pulled forward. And then you're also wanting to prepare yourself for the act of labor and giving birth and then, you know, make the recovery easier. So I guess there's so many different elements that you're trying to kind of, you know, approach holistically. So I interrupted you, but you were gonna -- Yeah. -- keep talking about other forms of exercise.

Angela [00:22:09]:

Yeah. No. It's really important you said that because it is towards the end. Of course, we actually want you know, like I've said, we wanna use our core to support our belly, but we also want and I don't really the word relax because our pelvic floor doesn't completely relax. Otherwise, we'd be peeing ourselves, but we want our pelvic floor to link them to be able to lengthen, to be able to, like, move through its full range of motion, and that's to prepare us for for childbirth. We want our pelvic floor to have the ability to get out the way so our uterus can do its job and put our baby down. So that's another thing. It's like a lot of us women are going into pregnancy, and we've done a lot of Pilates and We've been wearing tight jeans and sucking our belly in, and that overactive tight pelvic floor can actually work against us when comes to our pregnancy and labor. So there's definitely things in movement that you can do to release and open. and lengthen and so our pelvic floor yields, but you can also see a pelvic floor practitioner for that, like a pelvic floor, osteo, or physio, someone who can do internal work to release those quadrants of the pelvic floor as well. Yes. So powerful. I did this through my pregnant and I really think it helped my birth a 100% because, yes, we can do stuff through movement through our breath to relax our pelvic floor to lengthen it. But, you know, there's so it's so dynamic, and there's so many areas. It's we want it to be really balanced. So, you know, the left, our baby will always move towards where there's space. So if there's tension on one side of our pelvis or one side of our pelvic floor, it's it's not gonna wanna go there. So we wanna create as basically, the goal is to create as much space as we can for our baby. So the the journey is easier. So that's where that pelvic floor work, that internal work can be really helpful. because it can just help you get that little extra bit more of balance in your pelvic floor and in your pelvis as well. Hey, babetowns.

Freya Graf [00:24:24]:

So sorry to interrupt, but I simply had to pop my head into the lounge here and mention another virtual lounge that you've gotta get her It's the Labia Lounge Facebook group that have created for listeners of the potty to minglein. And there you'll find extra bits and bobs like freebies or discounts for offerings from guests who've been interviewed on the podcast, inspiring and thought provoking conversations, and support from a community of labial legends. I also have an account on the fab new app sunroom, which is a platform created by women for women and non binary folk. And where there's no shadow banning or censorship of sex positive content, unlike with the other platforms that I'm on, So you can hit up my sunroom for extra content and real and raw life updates because I'll be sharing on there from now on. All of the stuff that I can't post anywhere else. My vision for both of these is that they become really supportive, educational, and hilarious resources for you to have more access to me and a safe space to ask questions that you can't ask anywhere else. So head over to the links in the show notes, and I'll hopefully see you in there. And now back to the episode. Totally. And I guess the pelvic floor muscles often, people don't have a lot of awareness of them or connection. And they're not really very in touch with how to engage them or what it what it feels like to fully relax them and allow them to lengthen. And so sometimes that sort of feedback loop loop of having internal massage is just helping their brain connect to that part of the body and go, oh, that's where that is, and that's what that feels like. And that's how I relax that. And I can kinda get them to squeeze my finger with the pelvic floor muscles and then relax, and we can see how much they're actually releasing and, you know, whether there's work to do with releasing tension and I mean, hypotonic pelvic floors are just -- Right, aren't they? Yeah.

Angela [00:26:23]:

Yeah. And so true. And that bringing that attention to that area, sometimes we've never done it until you get to this pregnancy and you're like, oh, should I need to start thinking about what's what's happening down there? Where where what does it work for me? Can I bring my mind body connection to that area? And so some people just breathing, doing exercises to, like, open through, like, the boat, like, between the two sit bones and thinking about creating width can be enough. For some people, we need to get a mirror and see what's actually happening when you contract. For some people, it needs to be pelvic floor work, internal work can be really, really helpful. So, yeah, that that really is a huge part because I think if it's missed then and you don't have that connection, it's a really hard way to when you're in the moment, when you're in labor. You know, it's a hard thing to connect to if you've never done it before. I always say even a lot of the movements that we do in our 3rd trimester of moving mama, A lot of it is movements that you can do in your labor because when we practice things before, when we've done it for -- Mhmm. -- our nervous system can kinda go off guard, and it can relax. And we can be like, I've done this before. I know how to breathe. I can relax my jaw, and it's really conducive to labor. But if we wait till the very end and we've written down these these positions that we wanna use in labor. Right? You don't actually do it until you get to that moment. You're you're gonna get stressed, and your nervous system is not gonna allow, and your baby's gonna feel that. And so some things aren't gonna open and unwind as well.

Freya Graf [00:28:11]:

Yeah. Like, just having the the familiarity and the muscle memory of those positions and and exercises would just be so helpful because it's not like you've got a whole lot of bandwidth to and, like, to kind of in labor be like, okay. So now I'm gonna do this. No. Oh, you just wanna, like, feel as though it's almost automatic because you've already done it. And I guess that's why people do. You know, the breathwork classes to prepare and things. But that sorta leads me into my next question around Movement and exercises you can do, whether that's breath work, whether that's actually moving to prepare for birth that's gonna help prepare and protect your pelvic floor muscles in birth.

Angela [00:28:52]:

Yeah. So in, like, general, the all the things that I've already mentioned are gonna help and I'll mention one more as well just to help with when we talk about the levels of the pelvis. And when the baby goes down, different ways the pelvis needs to open. But in general, the more mobility we can create around our pelvis. And like I was talking about, the more our pelvic floor can lengthen all those things are gonna help our our labor be less traumatic, I guess. You may need to push less. It may be quicker because we're able we're gonna have stronger so we can be more upright. When gravity is able to work, it's gonna put more pressure down on our cervix and our our labor, hopefully, will be a little bit shorter, and all of that is going to allow our recovery to be better because our birth was less traumatic. We have a traumatic birth which happens, and I would say almost I think the statistic I heard when I say was 1 and 3 women have a see their birth as traumatic, which and I probably think it's probably more than that. But the less trauma that we have in our childbirth, then our recovery is easier and our recovery shorter, and we're able to get back to doing the things that we love in a quicker amount of time. But when it does come to preparing for birth so When we're talking about the the baby kind of descending down the pelvis, there's different levels of the pelvis that open and close for a different movement. So the top of the pelvis will open with external rotation and extension. So that which a lot of is in a lot of programs, that sort of glute work, external rotation, wide kind squats, things like that, you can do to help open the top of the pelvis. But the problem is when the top of the pelvis open, the bottom of the pelvis closes. So we need to move our pelvis in different levels. In mid pelvis, all those sort of asymmetrical movements are really helpful. So, you know, one leg up, one other leg up. Working on a lot of the things that we do in our 3rd trimester is working on lower body movements with rotation or uneven movements as well. So those sort of movements through the pelvis are gonna help open different sides through the mid pelvis. And then the bottom of the pelvis, which I think is missing in a lot of the general exercise programs, we have need to be able to access internal rotation. So, I mean, not always. I mean, if you have happen to have a big wide pelvis and a tiny baby. Sure. It's fine. But most of us who need to work a little bit more through our labor, and how that baby moved through, if we can act if we can't access that internal rotation, then we're probably more likely to have a labor stall in that point. So for me, like, I can remember I had a bit of a labor stall when my baby was now looking back, I know, when she was seated in that mid pelvis, and I found it really helpful. I was on my stairs, having one leg up. and having some surges in these, like, uneven positions. And my god, it was strong. But as soon as I did that and I did a little side lying work with rotation with my midlife, I got back in that water and she just, like, flew out after that because the baby knows where they need to go, but we need to be able to create the space for them to move. So being able to access those different movements can which you can work on in your pregnancy can be really helpful when it comes to your labor. And as we're talking about, that's gonna help with your recovery. The you know, like, I didn't really push when I when my baby came. So I experienced the fetal ejection reflex. So the baby my stomach just just when she was in the right position, she was ready, and my uterus just bed just pressed out. I didn't even do anything. And so because I wasn't pushing for hours and hours, and I wasn't straining and having that kind of strong pressure, I didn't have that trauma to my pelvic floor, to the tissues around my, you know, my I had time to lengthen and stretch the tissues around to open up and things like that. So I didn't experience any of the tearing and which I would say is totally normal to and can have happen in many pregnant many births, but I just think that the the the more we can help our baby move through Calvis through these these physical things as well. And, of course, it's mental as well, being able to trust that your body knows. to how to do it, but that is the big thing is, like, we were designed to birth. Our bodies know our body grew this baby. We didn't have to say grow 5 fingers, 5 toes, and all of that thing. It just did it. Then we then we also need that trust that our body knows how to move. And but that thing is moving intuitively, so we don't wanna use our thinking brain when we're in labor. but relying on just being like, I'm just gonna intuitively move when you've never done it before and you haven't connected with your body through your pregnancy it's gonna make it so much harder. So part of it, even just not even the exercises, but just the fact that you're connecting with your body through your trimester, connecting with your breath, bringing your attention down into your pelvic floor, Getting to know your pelvic floor, getting to know your breath, getting to know what areas feel tight, and how you feel through your pregnancy is also just such a good tool because that's gonna become so useful when it comes to your labor as well.

Freya Graf [00:34:56]:

Yes. Yeah. And, like, I would even say, potentially, the most important thing is that connection. And it's like, sure. We are naturally designed and built to give birth intuitively, but we've lost touch with that so much because of the way that we live in this modern world now, and we're sitting down constantly, and we barely know how to engage our pelvic floors. Like, it's it's quite interesting, I guess, through my work how many clients I I get that just have complete numbness or disconnect and are unable to engage their pelvic floors or even know if they're engaging them or not. And so I feel like the first port of call and it's, you know, obviously, moving your body and breathing and stuff will naturally connect you so it all goes hand in hand and a holistic approach is best. But I feel like that connection is so missing And so if we are like, yeah. We're just gonna, like, intuitively go for it. I trust my body, but we never move. We're never in our body. We're always in our heads. We're totally, like, disconnected from our genitals, our pelvic floor. You know, maybe there's a bit of shame. Maybe there's fear because where, you know, there's so much fear mongering around pregnancy and birth. Of course, it's gonna it's gonna be tricky to just tap into this intuitive. Like, we almost need to rewild ourselves 1st and, like, reconnect with our bodies and our primal ability to birth and to trust our body the bodies that we have that primal ability. And, yeah, you can't just totally rely on on that just appearing if you've -- No. -- spent most of your life disconnecting from that. You know? Totally. Yeah. I had this vision that I was like, I want a physiological,

Angela [00:36:37]:

unmedicated birth. But then when I actually looked it up, like, I have no examples of this. And -- Yeah. -- when I remember the midwife at a hypnotherapy course I went to, she said, like, When I shut your eyes, when I say the word birth, what comes to your head like first thing. And in my head, I visualize the movie seat where, like, the woman was her legs up, there was, like, 10 nurses around, like like, that's what came into my head even though I had even started listening to a lot of home best stores, and I'd started the pro list reading a lot of books and putting that starting to filter my hemp, but it was just a real eye opener that I still had work to do because I had just been so conditioned that that's not birth. And so I had to really give myself a lot of examples. I was listening to literally birth stories every day through my pregnancy. I was visualizing going into my room of how it was gonna happen and just really flooding my brain with the, you know, moving in the way I was gonna move through my labor and just, yeah, flooding my nervous system on my brain are trying to rewire it to this new way and trying to sort of start to remove this cultural conditioning that we've brought up being brought up with. Because if especially, if you have no examples, it's around you. And a lot of time in our western world, we don't. I think, like, in Victoria, anyway, I don't know what is in the other states, but less than 1% is a home birth in Victoria, which is wild. But and I think about it like my grandma was home birth. She was my mom was born at home. So when I really had to dig. I had to dig to be like, this is what I want, but where are the examples to help -- Yeah. -- confirm my nervous system that this is okay. This is safe.

Freya Graf [00:38:32]:

Totally. I know we're so lacking in in role models in that in that way, and it's this is reminding me a little bit of an episode I did with Bernadette from Core Floor And Restore. I think I got that right. It's core Core Floor. Core is something nice. And it was all it was all about sort of, yeah, I guess, the the overpathologization of birth and the hospital system and the dangers of birth hospital system and all of that. So feel free to check that out everyone. But, yeah, you know, she was just talking about, like you're saying, in the movies, you just see, like, they they're screaming at you to push, and the birth just looks so different. And if you ideally have, you know, your body's kind of innate response, which is did you call it I can't she talked about this as well. Was it the fatal ejection response? Yeah. Reflex. Like, you don't even need to push. Yeah. Reflex. You you don't you don't even need to push. It just takes over, and it kinda does the pushing for you, and it just ejects the baby. Mhmm. But we're kind of all, you know, expecting we're gonna have to bear down and push and obviously blow out our pelvic floor muscles and potent really tear because we're being encouraged to push way too early. Yeah. And it's just it's just yeah. Anyway, anyway, that's around I'd love to do the segment pregnant and die before I drill you with some more questions. Yeah. So do you have an anecdote about your sex ed that you're happy to share with us?

Podcast jingle [00:40:00]:

Don't have sex with the visionary position. Don't have sex with a visionary position. Don't have sex withstanding things up. Just Don't do it, Promise.

Angela [00:40:14]:

Yeah. So gosh. There's so much about my sex education that was lacking. But I think, you know and I'll bring it back to birth. I think you know what it was is that I and I revisited this when I was preparing for this rite of passage that I was gonna go through from maiden to mother And I really saw this this how do I want this rite of passage to feel? What do I want to to be in my body? What kind of event do I want to acknowledge it with? And I made me think back on the other right to passage. So, for example, you know, when I first got my period, it was a really non event, I guess, It was something that was just like, yeah. Okay. This is what you do. There you go. Move on. And I really felt like it was kind of stolen from me. You know? It wasn't acknowledged. It wasn't I didn't have any wise women telling giving me some nuggets of what this of means or what it can represent or what the next sort of stage of life is gonna look like. And I really felt like that was poorly executed in my in that part of life. And I actually, as part of my operation for birth. I went back and rewrote that. I rewrote that rite of passage, and I found that was really healing for me. And then I was able to now move into this rite of passage and also thinking about my daughter, now how do I wanna acknowledge that for her? What are we gonna do? Are we gonna create some sort of ceremony? Or I don't know if you've had Jane Hardwick cons, but she talks about, like, doing a beautiful ceremony where you have, like, all the women in her sort of community, her village, who can share that wisdom. And for me, that's that's what I want to bring for my daughter in in that. Yeah.

Freya Graf [00:42:14]:

Oh, that's so beautiful. And it's funny as you were talking, I was like, oh my gosh. This sounds because I interviewed Jane Hardwick Collins on menopause and rats of passage, and she was talking about, you know -- -- so good. -- the different rites of passage and stages, period, and motherhood menopause, they're so connected. And if you reflect on you know, as you did your monarch, and then you kind of yeah. You use that to, like, rewrite and heal and inform the next rites of passage that you're going through. And, yeah, I love I love her work. That's yeah. That was a really beautiful episode. And, yeah, like, Lucy, you told her, something like that. Yeah. And that could be for men as well. Like, if I if I have a boy, I'll be, like, telling my husband,

Angela [00:42:57]:

maybe they'll go into the the woods for a hunt or something together or I don't know. Something that will be meaningful for them as well, which is nice. Totally.

Freya Graf [00:43:08]:

Yeah. It's such a missing piece, and it's so nourishing and important. Thank you for that. Alright. So maybe let's move towards post. Well okay. What about what about in we're in labor. So we've done sort of pre, you know, prenatal movement and preparation in labor, like, what are the best sort of positions for the pelvic floor to be encouraging your body to give birth, or are we just following what ever your body wants to do. because I know I mean, surely, most people know by now that whole lying on your back with your feet up in the stirrups is shocking for your body, and it's just a convenient sort of position for the doctors, what positions are actually quite helpful for giving birth and protecting your pelvic floor in labor? excuse the interruption my loves, but I'm shamelessly seeking reviews and 5 star ratings for the potty. Because as I'm sure you've noticed by now, It's pretty fab. And the more people who get to hear it, the more people it can help. Reviews and ratings help me curry favor with the algorithmic gods and get suggested to other listeners to check out. Plus, they make me feel really good and appreciated as I continue to pull my heart and soul into creating this baby for you. And I promise I don't mazz over them or anything. I mostly just tucked them away for a rainy day when I'm filled with self doubt and existential dread about being self employed. which is fairly frequently. So you see, leaving your review really does make a difference, and it's an easy little active support that you can take in just a minute or 2 by either going to Spotify and leaving 5 stars for the show or writing a written review and leaving 5 stars over on Apple Podcasts. choose your poison. Or if you're a real overachiever, you could do both. Woah now. If you are writing a review though, just be sure to only use g rated words because despite the fact that this is a podcast about sexuality, words like sex can be censored and your review won't actually show up. lane. Anyway, oh oh, what was that? Oh, you're gonna go do it right now while I wait. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's great idea. May as well just quickly click that five star button before we get on with it and, you know, like, forget about it and get on with your day. Oh, I'm hearing them roll in. I'm hearing those 5 stars. Oh my god. I make myself cringe. Anyway, Thank you much, Lee. You're a total gem, and I'll let you get back to the episode now.

Angela [00:45:41]:

Yeah. I mean, you're right totally with the on your back, but this is gonna look different for everyone because if you feel like you wanna move into the position and even maybe that position is on your back, for that moment, I really feel like that in labor you need to listen to your body and try try it out And a lot of that comes down to making sure you set up your right environment that you feel comfortable, that you could go and move and change into any position. And this is where it gets a little bit tricky in the hospital because you do feel like the light's bright and runs watching you and So it's very hard to have that intuitive movement when you are feeling watched, which, you know, I was grateful that I was at home and I had set up my ball, and I'd set up my birthing on the door, and I had my pool there, and I had a yoga mat down with some cushion. So I was comfortable moving into all those positions. And as I said, like, I had done a lot of it before in my preparation. So you know, in the 3rd trimester moving mama, we've got a birth ball class, and I would even just have my birth ball in the TV room in the 3rd trimester and just kinda hang over it and just practice kinda leaning over it and just relaxing. Because, you know, a lot of the times that sort of being able to relax and relax, especially even through your jaw, can really affect your pelvic floor as well. So that's where that finding positions where you feel most comfortable because if you're not comfortable, you can't breathe properly and you're gonna be tense. So, you know, I could say for me being in a deep squat, is actually a really I felt really comfortable in that position. I would kind of grab on to them. I've got a birth sling. You haven't had a look at of what a birth sling is. They're amazing. They're like these kind of ribbon slims that you can hang on to the door, and you can kinda just do all different kind of movements with. That's really cool. Yay. And just allow yourself kind of your body kinda hang on them. And so that for me was really relaxing. Like, in my early labor, I tried to be upright as much as possible. Like, we were talking about letting gravity kinda do a lot of that initial work. All fours was really comfortable for me as well just spending and this is where, you know, in our classes, we do a lot of work on risk to work and things like that because you do this where the endurance does come into it. Because if you really enjoy, like, enjoy the position of being on all fours, but then you know, your wrist are caving or you're getting tired. This is where it can be a bit tricky. I use the support of my husband as well. We did a lot of partner kind of movements together, which we'd practiced before as well. And so that he knew exactly what to do when I didn't have to kind of teach him in the moment. He already knew what he had to do through those surges. So I found that, and then, I guess, also, being in water. But I would definitely also check out, you know, what's it called, spinning babies? has a lot of great free resources on their website where you can get some different positions that can help move baby, and you can try out for yourself. But what I would definitely recommend is practicing those before. before the moment. Yep.

Freya Graf [00:49:01]:

Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Love love the spinning baby babies if I ever trained with Jenny Blath. and I just yeah. I Oh, amazing. So it's kinda bizarre that I'm so into pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't don't have any personal experience, but I guess it's really relevant to what I do, and I work with a lot of moms, like, prenapally and postnaply.

Angela [00:49:22]:

So -- There good. Oh, man. It'll serve me well one. Don't you? Wait. A 100%. You'll get to put it all into practice.

Freya Graf [00:49:29]:

That's Yeah. I've always thought about being a doula as well. I think it's just an area. Like, it it on it honestly, like, brings me to tears. Like, if I even think about birth or if I watch a scene or videos on Instagram, you know, like, I can cry straight up. Yeah. --

Angela [00:49:47]:

huge and emotional and powerful. Like yeah. It's funny that you feel that now because I honestly didn't really feel that until I went through this bring a fire myself, and now I just my even my husband once he learned about the history of birth and watched me, go through it, and watched me birth at home, and see me in, like, my rawest state roaring my baby out here. Like, is now, like, the biggest advocate for home birth and he wants to like literally, we could both talk about birth at, like, to anyone.

Freya Graf [00:50:22]:

Oh, I get goosebumps. Yeah. And honestly, like, I've got so many questions down and we're already running out of time. This is just such a big topic that I just love. So Alright. So what about after birth? Like, what sort of movement and, like, how should we generally be moving? because I feel like postnatal recovery is so often just, like, rushed, and there's all this pressure and these expectations placed on women to get their pre baby body back. And, like, also, we often don't have the luxury of, like, resting nearly as much or as long as we need to. So what's your what are your thoughts on recovery after you give birth?

Angela [00:51:01]:

Yeah. It's huge. I mean, I think if we Remember that we have a wound the size of our placenta inside our body. Like, if you just got to if you got to see your placenta, that is the wound that has to heal post Natal. And I think if that wound was sitting, like, outside us, I feel like people who might take our postpartum recovery a little more seriously. But it is big. And I I personally really like the 5 by 5 by 5 kind of rule, which is 5 days In the bed, 5 days on the bed, 5 days around the bed. So roughly kind of 2 weeks spending a lot of time horizontal because our pelvic floor has just had, like, a huge thing go through, and, you know, we need to give it some rest, and it's that whole gravity and pressure, and we need to limit that as much as possible for healing, especially in that 1st 2 weeks and also let that wound heal. let our body come back to balance. So I think, you know, rest in that 1st 2 weeks obviously is one of the most important things. And that's easier said than done because I think in that preparation is the key and getting support is the key. So you know, getting preparing your meals, putting the freezer batching your meals, getting some of the per people that can support you to help clean your house, and do things like that. Get the this is where the village comes in is in that postpartum period. Mhmm. But, you know, when it comes to movement, it I also feel like you especially if you have another kid, it the whole, like, don't move for 6 weeks is also a little bit silly because we are moving, and we are picking things up off the ground, and we are probably carrying your time viral, especially and it's very different for everyone, especially in what whether you had a c section birth or traumatic birth, you know, it varies a lot in your recovery. So number one, listening to your body is really vital in those 1st few weeks, but there definitely is movement that you could do at might even be just on the bed initially, you know, doing some gentle thread the needles on all fours or some gentle neck mobility. You know, one of the things I have our postpartum for moving mama is being released really soon. And one of the things I filmed was just like a 7 daily move. So just movements that you can do around the bed, some point in your day. And these are movements that you don't need clearance for your doctor. They're just general movements that are very gentle because I think there can also be a lot of that fear about moving postpartum. And we do need to because whether even if you are in everyday life, you have your COVID pause have to gonna start and cause enough to start engaging at some point. So the earlier that we can start to recruit those muscles and start to create to encourage a bit more movement back, especially if you're just starting your breath feeding journey. It's a lot of being in this, like, reclined position, which is great for your pelvic floor because that reclined position is gonna not put pressure. But I can tell you it does not feel great on your back being in this, like, reclined position all the time. So it is important that we're also reminding it absolutely. Whether it's gentle cows, you know, there are things you can do in that initial period. And then, of course, I really recommend, yeah, seeing pelvic floor, osteo, or physio, or someone who can I really recommend just that in that internal assessment as well. But, you know, whatever you can do to get some sort of assessment so you can gauge where you're at in your, like, specific recovery as well.

Freya Graf [00:54:46]:

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I remember Jenny Blair talking about doing movement quite a bit on your hands and knees just to take the downward pressure off the pelvic floor. And then if there's prolapse or something, obviously, you're protecting that, but you're still moving, and and your belly can kinda just dangle down. And she had this, like, band I think they have a name, but you you strap it around and it holds your, like, abdomen in kinda thing, like those almost like a scarf that you wrap around your lower belly.

Angela [00:55:16]:

Yeah. There is, like, belly binding, which I'm not really a huge fan of that strong belly binding just because I feel like if there's too much pressure in one side, like, things have to go somewhere else, and our organs will start having to go back to their position again. And if we're Yeah. Putting that strong pressure on our abdomen too soon or too strong, it's the same thing. You know, the pressure to go somewhere. But I do think, you know, getting a pair of supportive leggings or bike shorts or something that can just help you feel that just gentle little bit of recruitment and support initially can be can be very helpful.

Freya Graf [00:55:56]:

Yeah. Good to know. Yeah. feel like I remember them being a little bit stretchy, but then I can't remember what they called. Okay. Okay. Cool. So what about this is a little bit not unrelated, but it's a bit of a sidestep just because I just thought of Something my friend has, like, often said to me, because I'm a big proponent of massage and bodywork. And also movement, like, you know, yoga teacher or whatever. But given that, yeah, your main jam is movement, I thought this would be interesting to ask you. it's around movement versus massage. And, like, my friend basically doesn't buy into bodywork. He believes that it's the people that are just too lazy to actually move their bodies and stretch and strengthen thus kind of replacing the need for massage. And he reckons that, like, a good movement and stretching session is basically like giving ourself a massage. And therefore, we shouldn't need bodywork if we're moving properly. And, you know, he's like, well, if you're moving properly, then you shouldn't need constantly go and get bodywork sessions, and these people are just going for this magic bullet and -- Yeah. -- visit there. And I'm like, well, yeah, I can't get where you're coming from, but I also fucking love massage. Yeah. And I think that's a big place for bodywork as well. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah. That's such an interesting part you brought up because this kind of my journey. I come from doing hand I've done hands on treatment for over 15 years now. And -- Mhmm. -- then over the last 2 years, I've done nothing. I haven't done any

Angela [00:57:26]:

one on one specific work. But the funny thing is is being online now and teaching movement I feel like almost has the same effect because we can really attach to what's going on. Like, you can be like, I'm the lower back person who has the lower back pain, and and I need to get that fixed every 4 weeks. So I'm the this person. And instead of when you go to move, you just think about that thing instead of actually thinking about how can I get my whole body moving better and functioning better and moving through its full range and actually focusing on that instead of how can I get rid of the pain, and it becomes a different kind of mentality. And when you do that, generally, those little niggles and things like that when the thing areas are free around it will free up a lot as well. So I do think it is overused. I definitely feel like body work and treatment is overused in our society. And a lot of the time, it's because we just sit too long and we're sedentary too much. And -- Mhmm. -- that's a quick it's a quick fix to feel good, and we all love a quick fix of something, but it's not getting to the root cause. It's not getting to why it's there in the first place. So I feel like it can work really well in conjunction if you're or if you are daily working at the things that you need to move and strengthen. But if you're not doing those things, which I would say majority of the people who are getting hands on treatment, ah, they're not doing those things anyway. They're barely doing the exercises that they're being given, let alone. Exactly. The general movement, it's probably not. But when it comes to pregnancy and things, I think there is a lot of beneficial work with bodywork, though, I'm gonna say because It's not even just physical. It's your nervous system. It's your lymph your lymphatic system is moving. It's also that time out just for you for that self care piece. And I'm really you know, the more that you can decrease your stress however that works, whether that's through a massage or bodywork, then I feel like that's -- Totally. -- gonna help you. It's gonna help your baby and everything. And, also, like, we were talking a lot about balance at the start when we're talking about preparation. And, you know, everything's connected. Like, if you've got facial tightness or tightness up in your neck and things, it is gonna affect areas in your body. So getting that addressed, I don't think is a bad thing. but I definitely think it should be your foundation. Like, I don't think you should go see anyone until you're doing some daily movement until you're doing some weekly strengthening work and then going to see if you can really get that next level from from a practitioner. Yeah.

Freya Graf [01:00:19]:

because it's it's such a common thing now to kinda outsource and want that magic bullet or that Band Aid solution and just to go back every 4 weeks because you need to get an adjustment or you need to get out. And that's quite disempowering having to rely on someone else to, you know, fix you quote unquote. And, you know, it's so much more sustainable and empowering to take it into your own hands and be doing the movement stuff yourself But, yeah, I I find for for, like, myself, body work is more a nervous system thing and a real, like, situation thing and a pleasure thing. Like, it feels amazing, and it's just so beautiful to surrender on the table and just let someone else kind of work on my body and not have to do anything and be able to switch off. And and having, like, massage that feels nice helps me just be so present in my body And I get the kind of, yeah, the relaxation and and nervous system regulation benefits of that. But I don't so much, you know, I like it so funny. The people that they want a massage, and they're just like, go harder. Go harder. Just like really get in there. And they're like wanting they want they think the harder the better and the more that's being done and the more that's being fixed. And I just don't know if that's quite as beneficial.

Angela [01:01:33]:

Totally. Yeah. And I I just think, like, long term wise, if you're thinking, what's gonna help me 5 years, 10 years future me? Like, move better, feel better. I would be telling you to strengthen to work on your ranges, like, to do those physical things. Yeah. But in those moments, definitely yeah. There's definitely benefit too. of course. Yeah. Yeah.

Freya Graf [01:01:57]:

Bit of bit of column, a bit of column b. Yeah. I gotcha. And Do you have a TMI story that you feel comfortable sharing? yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay.

Angela [01:02:15]:

I was trying to think about this, and I wanted to kinda make it relevant to what we were chatting about and our topic. And I guess what we got within that came to mind was I because I think it's really good for people if you're going into labor and you're wanting a especially if you're wanting a home birth and you're gonna be experiencing everything yourself is to like, hear stories and know what to what are the possibilities of what to expect. And then it kinda normalizes that you can get over it and be like, Cool. That that's just part of it. I'm I'm willing, and I'm I'm ready to move through it.

Freya Graf [01:02:53]:

Hey, me again. If you'd like to support the potty and you've already given it 5 stars on whatever platform you're listening on, I wanna mention that you can buy some really dope merch from the website and get yourself a labia lounge, totes, Togs. Yep. You heard that right. I even have labia lounge bathers. or a cute fanny pack if that would blow your hair back. So if fashion isn't your passion though, you can donate to my buy me a coffee donation page, which is actually called buy me a soy chai latte because I'll be the first to admit, I'm a bit of a Melbourne cafe tosser like that. And, yes, That is my coffee order. You can do a once off donation or an ongoing membership and sponsor me for as little as 3 fat ones a month. And I also have a sunroom profile over on the sunroom app, as I've mentioned. And I also offer 1 on 1 coat Ching, and online courses that'll help you level up your sex life and relationship with yourself and others in a really big way. So every bit helps because it ain't cheap to put out a sweet podcast into the world every week out of my own pocket. So I will be undying -- grateful if you support me and my biz financially in any of these ways. And if you like, I'll even give you a mental BJ with my mind from the lounge itself. Sawzy. And I'll pop the links in the show notes. Thank you. Later.

Angela [01:04:17]:

So I thought I'd said so well.

Freya Graf [01:04:20]:

Why did you know? That's what I'm thinking. because when I found out that people were rude during labor, I mean, it was, like, sex ed, I think, when I was teenager, and I was so mortified. I was like, I'm never giving birth. I don't wanna ship myself in front of anyone.

Angela [01:04:35]:

I didn't know, really. Until, like, I think I started listening to a few stories, and then I started prepping Marty and be like, there's a good chance I'm gonna poo in that bus up, just so you know. And then I can remember that when we're in the in the bath at the very end, so we're done with all the work and she was ready to push down and when to they're ready to push, you feel it in your bum. That's where you know that -- Yeah. -- she's coming because it's like, that pressure is like, it's there. And then I can just remember my body just pressed down. Like and I just said the first thing I would say was like, I didn't do that. That wasn't me. Like, I because I didn't inspectively do it. Like, it just happens. And then I can look I look back and Marty and the midwife have a little Like, we had a little sieve. It's like a little fishing sieve. Got a little poosku. Yeah. Like a kitty litter. Yeah. And they were, like, they were so nice would just they didn't ever say anything. I was just, like, scooping my poop from the water, and I'm like, I'm sorry. I think I was like, almost crying. But I was just like, I'm sorry. I didn't do that. That wasn't me. My body just did it. And then let's but, like, for a midwife, that is an awesome sign because that means, like, she is coming. And, literally, I think in that next there was a bit of a pause, and then in that next contraction because my water didn't break. So in that next contraction, the sac pushed out of the membrane, and that pressure was, like, intense. But then her head popped out, and I didn't even know that. I was just like, what is that? And the middle half was like, put your hand down there. I was like, what? And I could just feel if you're still my baby. She's got a huge amount of hair. And I put my hand down there, and I could just feel this hair, like, waving in the pool. And I was like, oh my god. That's ahead. And then she was just, like, in the next contraction, Just take your time. She's gonna you're gonna catch your baby. If she comes forward, you're gonna pick her up, Marty. If she goes backwards, you're gonna catch her and bring her through. I'm like, okay. And then she just lit on out. So that was I feel like the peak was probably the poo coming out, but then the next like, last bit was just, like, amazing.

Freya Graf [01:06:44]:

I know -- Oh my god. I'm literally just tearing off. I can't even hear about birth without I know.

Angela [01:06:51]:

It's absolutely ridiculous how a bunch of a miracle it is.

Freya Graf [01:06:57]:

Oh, I'm exhausted. So much emotion. Also, that's so I loved that story. The hair waving in the bar. Yeah. I do scoops. We love. We love it. That was a great one. Yeah.

Angela [01:07:08]:

Well, at least now, other people know that's gonna happen. Just expect it. It's all good. It's a good sign.

Freya Graf [01:07:16]:

Oh my god. Yeah. Alright. Well, well, I reckon I'm just gonna try to squeeze, like, 1 or 2 little tiny questions in before you have to go. Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. I'm really curious because everyone seems to have pretty conflicting opinions on this. How do you feel about kegels or, like, different devices that are available to pop up there and train your PC muscles?

Angela [01:07:41]:

That's a good question. So, I mean, I think kegels is basically your pelvic floor activation. Right? It's that that ability to activate your workflow, which, you know, I think it has a place, but I think it just got overused at some point in the time, and some saying got told of, like, do your kegels at the lights at the in in you're in the car and things like that. But Actually, that's probably the worst position you could do it in because you're in that tap dunder pelvis and you're not in a -- Right. -- quick position. So don't do that. But -- Mhmm. -- I think it has a place, obviously, that pelvic floor activation, but it's not the whole picture. It's kinda like choosing one muscle. Like, if I wanted to work my bicep, and I'm just gonna constantly flex my bicep. But then if I then wanna extend my arm to fully lengthen mine if I've only been doing key cause it only been doing these bicep flexes I'm gonna lose my ability to fully lengthen that muscle. So I think it has a place, but I think it's just been, yeah, over over pushed at some point.

Freya Graf [01:08:48]:

Yeah. Totally. I agree. And something that I'll often explain to clients is that you know, we like, everyone's always wanting to have a tight pussy and -- Yeah. -- like, all of that crap.

Podcast jingle [01:09:05]:

That you can

Freya Graf [01:09:10]:

have pelvic floor tension and have a tight vagina, and it also be weak as fuck -- Okay. -- and cause you to pee yourself. Like, you know, a tight courses can cause incontinence, and it can cause painful sex. And, you know, it's it's actually not good to have a type vagina. And if you have only been training it to And, you know, a lot of, like, yoga teachers and Pilates, teachers and stuff, they've got hypotonic pelvic floors because they're constantly engaging the bunders and they're squeezing, but they're not doing a lot of relaxing and releasing and and lengthening. So do you wanna just, like, explain that from an osteo perspective?

Angela [01:09:45]:

Yeah. I mean, that's totally true because I don't have forgotten the statistic, but I know the statistic for especially women I don't know if it's just women, especially, actually, but women athletes and gym goers, the percentage of urinary incontinence is really high. And I think that's because that, you know, works hasn't been just a breathing we were talking about is a huge part of the connection to your pelvic floor and your diaphragm. And so just constantly you know, I mentioned it before of, like, us always sucking our bellies in to make our bellies flat. Like, all those things are going to create that over activity. And a lot of the time, our like you said, you know, your pelvic floor can be tight and weak at the same time. And, you know, a lot of it can also be working on our we want our pelvic floor to be reactive and to adaptive to what we're doing. And so working on those 2 elements is what's really important, like when we go to sneeze, we want our pelvic floor to contract before. Now that's a timing issue. So you could be doing your giggles and working on that, but you're not actually addressing this timing issue that you've got with your pelvic floor. So it's very individual on what you need to address. It's not just, like, you've got incontinence, do your kegels. It's just that's not how it's gonna work. So, yeah, I would say get that assessment through Hippo Video, and, also, don't just think, like, yeah, the stronger, the better. That whole, like I like my pelvic floor. Like, I like my coffee or something. That meme I don't know if you ever see that meme come out. A lot of Pilates and stuff was posted of, like, I want my my pelvic floor strong AF like my coffee, and it's just it's really not helpful.

Freya Graf [01:11:44]:

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. You want an articulate and tone to have a look. Not necessarily, like, a height or strong one. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Well, this has been an enlightening conversation. Is there anything that we haven't covered or I haven't asked that you wanna just touch upon any words of wisdom. Yeah. Before we wrap this up around, you know, everything that we've spoken about with you know, with, I guess, if you're speaking to, like, pregnant women or people preparing to get pregnant or give birth.

Angela [01:12:17]:

What do I wanna say? I guess, Because I think a lot of lessons would be coming from different background. Like, maybe someone's done no exercise or someone does a lot of exercise. And I think what's important is that there's always something you can do. So don't feel like just because you haven't exercised before, there's also that sort of myth of Don't start in pregnancy that it might you might not be doing, like, full weight training, but you can do body weight work. You can do gentle movements. So there's always something you can do just and I say this as a force to people, any of our AI students, is just start where you're at. that sometimes you just have to start where you're at, whether that's a really regressed easy version of something, find where that is for you now, and just slowly build it up from there because the consistency here is what's important. And if you're in up for the long game, missing a couple of weeks or because you feel sick in the 1st trimester, don't just write it off completely. Just get back on and just start where you're at and keep that consistent throughout because 9 months later, when you get to that 4th trimester, that's where your body's gonna be like, thank you, past Angela, for doing all that work. I appreciate you. So, yeah, I would just say that start with your ad and be consistent.

Freya Graf [01:13:36]:

Yeah. Great advice, baby steps, and this is a good reminder to me to get back into moving my body. And you're like, so lazy this is Terry. Amazing. Well, I'm gonna put a link to your work in the show notes and to move in mamas. I'm almost just chomping at the bit to go and get pregnant so that I can -- Yeah. -- do your course. Although, I don't think my partner would be too happy But I am glad to know that it's there for when it's there. Yes.

Angela [01:14:06]:

Yeah. So our prenatal is free and released, and our postnatal is coming month, then you'll be able to either get them separate. You can already get prenatal, a moving mama, but you go out and also get it as a bundle as well, which is cool. Yep. amazing.

Freya Graf [01:14:20]:

Fuck. Yeah. Thank you so much, Angela.

Angela [01:14:23]:

Thanks for having me.

Freya Graf [01:14:24]:

And that's it, darling hearts.

Freya Graf [01:14:27]:

Thank you for stopping by the labia lounge. Your bum group in the couch will be right where you left it, just waiting for you to sink back in for some more double l action next time. And in the meantime, if you'd be a deer and subscribe, share this episode, or leave a review on iTunes, then you can pat yourself on the snatch because that, my dear, is a downright act of sex positive feminist activism. And you'd be supporting my vision to educate Empower de mystify and destigmatize with this ear podcast. Also, I'm always open to feedback, topic ideas that you'd love to hear covered, or guest suggestions. So feel free to get in touch via my website atfrailraph.com,

Freya Graf [01:15:08]:

or say hi over on Insta. My handle is freya_graf_ymt, and I seriously hope you're following me on there. because, damn. We have fun. We have fun.

Freya Graf [01:15:22]:

Anyway, later, labial legends. I'll see you next time.