Freya Graf:

Oh, hey. Welcome, welcome, welcome my lovely lumps. Or should I say lovely labs? I don't know. They're both good. I'm so thrilled to have you here in the labia lounge to yarn about all things, sexuality, womanhood, holistic health, and everything in between. Your legs. Oh, cringe. I couldn't help myself.

Freya Graf:

Anyway, I am your host, Frey Graff, and I am a holistic sex coach and educator and yoni mapping therapist. So, basically, I make my living massaging vaginas and teaching people about sex. Yeah. Pretty girl. So as you can imagine, we're gonna have vagloads of real chats with real people about real shit. So buckle up. You're about to receive the sex ed that you'd never had and have a bloody good laugh while you're at it. Before we get stuck in though, I would like to respectfully acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I'm recording this podcast, the Monang people.

Freya Graf:

It's an absolute privilege to be living and creating dope podcast content on Noongar country, and I pay respect to their elders past, present, and emerging. Now, if y'all are ready, let's flap and do this. Oh, is there such a thing as having too many vagina jokes in the one intro? Whatever. I'm leaving it in. It's my podcast.

Speaker B:

Don't panic. You're not broken. Your sex education was a piece of shit. Get your fluff out and put it out. She's the lady allowed.

Freya Graf:

Oh, my God. I'm super excited today. I've got a lovely lush friend of mine, generally coming on to chat about all sorts of juicy topics. Actually, I'm I'm gonna have to be trying super hard to keep it tight because we've only got an hour and I wanna pick the fuck out of her brains until there's nothing left, basically. But I'm gonna try and keep it to a few a few topics, and hopefully, we can have her back on another time. So just a bit of background on Jenna Lee. She's always had a fond interest and passion in women's sexual health. And in her early twenties, she contemplated studying sexology or psychology, but one thing led to another with her own health, which inspired her studies in nutritional medicine.

Freya Graf:

It was at uni where she had mentors who worked in women's health and IVF that she was able to learn a lot who worked in women's health and IVF that she was able to learn a lot and be inspired to specialize in women's natural health. Then being diagnosed in her mid twenties with PCOS, it's been her mission ever since to manage her own symptoms and condition naturally, which has inspired the ongoing research and commitment into the syndrome to help others manage theirs. She hopes to empower and educate women to make their own informed decisions with confidence when it comes to their health, health goals and lifestyle. Jenna Lee is a holistic nutritionist considering the body as a whole, treating the root cause with consideration for her patient's mental health, emotional health, and physical health. Her goal is to have her patients living with optimal health, not just free of disease. Welcome, Jenna Lee.

Jennalea:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Freya Graf:

Thank you so much for coming on. I've, yeah, I've been, you're one of the first people I thought of when I sort of hatched the idea of the labia lounge because you've just got so much knowledge, not just in the realm of nutrition and holistic health, but, you know, you're an amazing yoga teacher that's whooped my ass on the mat a few times, and a new mom. And, yeah, I think we nerd out on a lot of the same things. So I've got quite a few questions for you. I'm just gonna, like, hammer them at you if that's okay.

Jennalea:

Oh, let's do it. Let's do it.

Freya Graf:

So I wanna cover things like PCOS, obviously. But then also I'd love to chat about things like eating for your menstrual cycle and libido is one thing that I wanna just jump into right off the bat because I get asked about this all the time, and I think a lot of people, yeah, would love some tips on how to increase their libido or manage their sex drive. And I know that there's so many factors involved, like, you know, not just nutrition, but stress and hormone issues and

Jennalea:

Mhmm.

Freya Graf:

Things like synthetic hormone control, like birth control methods and stuff. Absolutely. But I'd yeah. I'd love to just kind of ask what are the main things that you start to focus on if someone comes to you, seeking some support with their libido?

Jennalea:

I think another consideration too is along with things that you mentioned, lifestyle, so if somebody is still smoking cigarettes, we know that cigarettes affect the way that nitric oxide is being produced in the body. And we need nitric oxide for the blood vessels to constrict and dilate. And so we have the nitric oxide producing foods that are really beneficial for our libido because it help blood pump down to the clitoris and to the penis. So obviously, you know, erection in both all sexes. We need that for the stimulation and the pleasure. However, if we're smoking cigarettes, this nitric oxide production is not going to be the same because our veins, our arteries, everything is really restricted because of the lack of oxygen flowing through our body. And so we often see, particularly in men, if they are cigarette smokers or they do have a long history of smoking marijuana or drinking alcohol, even on certain medications such as antidepressants, that there is that issue of keeping an erection, keeping the oxygen and the blood flowing to areas to help erection and to help stimulate the libido. And I mean, with females, we still see similarities because if we are on certain medications or we're on the synthetic hormone, like you mentioned, like progestin, which is present in the oral contraceptive pill, the mini pill, the implant on the IUD, the injections we can get for contraception, progesterone, being the synthetic form of progesterone, these hormones, you know, they're not giving us that natural release of progesterone, which is really calming.

Jennalea:

And, you know, when we think of being really calm, it does help our way of being, especially our sexual health. And we don't have that natural release of estrogen so much either, which is estrogen plumping us up, physically plumping us up as women in preparation for ovulation. And that part of the cycle when we are on the rise of estrogen, our body not only gets curvier and plumpier and our lips literally plumping up, ready to go find a mate, but our sex drive is on the rise because and for women, we know if we're not not so horny during our cycle, it'll that there's potential. We're actually not ovulating It's one way to know if you're ovulating your horny. It was a part of the cycle. So those are considerations that we can definitely eat certain foods to assist. Nitric oxide productions are helping the blood flow. There's also other foods that we just sort of need in general for lacrimation.

Jennalea:

So building fluid in the body, zinc being one of them. And for for a male, for instance, every time he ejaculates, he needs about 5 milligrams of zinc just for that ejaculation. So you think about the fluid for a woman to get wet, zinc, omega 3, she needs to be hydrated. And obviously, sex is a lot more pleasurable if you can get wet naturally. And I think there's a big issue there that women are getting vaginal dryness, earlier than menopause. And this is, again, the exogenous hormones such as the synthetic estrogen in the pill or whatever the, the hormone replacement therapy could be. And also it could be lifestyle, like I mentioned before. There's there's a bounty of nutrients if you want me to go on.

Jennalea:

But yeah, absolutely. So yeah, so just looking at that response in the body of, you know, making sure we're not over inflamed either and our body feels energized. Fentanyl alanine is another one. So we're looking at bananas, brown rice, almonds. The funny thing about when I think of all the foods that help alabido almonds tend to come up a lot, sort of bananas and avocado. And, you know, you think of these foods are just whole foods, the foods that, you know, some people say in a diet nearly every day. Some people like, oh, I really like banana avocado for the texture. So usually there's a reason why we don't like these sort of foods, but we can hide them.

Jennalea:

We can put them in a smoothie. We can make some sort of moves out of them. Bananas, you can make it into a banana cake. We do see a lot of nuts and seeds in our sexual health as for even for women. We do seed cycling. So eating certain seeds in different parts of the cycle to help with our hormones. Tyrosine being another one again, same picture. Almonds, avocado, banana, beef, cheese.

Jennalea:

So if someone's on a plant based diet, they'd look more towards the pumpkin seeds, almonds, avocado, the bananas rather than fish and eggs. But what's really interesting there is I actually have seen a lot of clients over the years who this is women, who are vegan and don't have a libido. And one of the key nutrients there that vegans tend to not be getting enough of is zinc. And like I said before, zinc is responsible for lacrimation. So fluid in the body, keeping our eyes wet, helping with vaginal wetness. So zinc is probably one of the biggest ones I would consider to start with other than nitric oxide producing foods and keeping really, really hydrated.

Freya Graf:

Amazing. Yeah. And zinc's just so it's just an absolute all stars, isn't it? Like, that's so incredible for menstrual health and hormone health as well. Like, zinc and magnesium, they just come up every fucking time. It's like just just get more zinc and magnesium.

Jennalea:

Absolutely. You know, and the thing about zinc is if someone has been on the oral contraceptive pill for, you know, we're looking at over a year's time and some women it could be 16, 17, 18 years. And zinc is one of the nutrients that the pill depletes in the body. And zinc is required for our neurotransmitter production. So if we're not getting enough zinc, no, we're not producing enough serotonin and So if we're not getting enough zinc, no, we're not producing enough serotonin and we're having issues with our dopamine and our mood and we're having our mood swings and we're not feeling as elevated and lifted and vibrant. So I think is major.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And I actually did the whole plant based diet thing for quite a while. I was vegan for probably 4 years, ages ago now, but I did end up having to sort of, yeah, move back onto some bone broth and some flesh, basically, because my health just suffered so much. And I was noticing, yeah, things like that with my menstrual cycle and my libido, and there's probably so many factors involved, like a lot of gut health stuff as well. I'm not just blaming it on the veganism at all, but I did I did notice that, yeah, it was so much harder just to, yeah, live in optimal health. Yeah, it is.

Jennalea:

I think there's definitely a place for it, but I think we need to consider all the key nutrients that are really hard to absorb in a vegan diet and just look at ways to optimizing that absorption.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Totally beautiful. So things like nuts and seeds, bananas, avos, those are some great libido boosting foods that's super practical. And I feel like, you know, you could find them in most pantries, so that's really helpful. What do you think about stuff like, you know, maca powder and even even stuff like pine pollen or horny goat weight or those sort of more supplementary things that people tout as being libido boosting. I mean, I've I've fully rate Maca. But, yeah, what about, what do you think about those sorts of things?

Jennalea:

So Maca is an adaptogen. And what that means is if one hormone is a little bit higher or out of balance, as we would say, if we take that powder, it's believed that it helps things to come back into a harmony. So not, it would never just by having your half t's been like, okay, I'm cured. My hormones are in balance. But it said that it does help in like if you take it for quite some time, that is going to help balance out your hormones and help your testosterone drop a little bit. If you're a woman with high testosterone, high androgens, high male sex hormones, Macra is something, though, that if someone has never taken it before, you know, they do need to start really subtle. I think from memory, the recommendations only a teaspoon. So if you have it in a smoothie, and a teaspoon a day is absolutely plenty.

Jennalea:

I used to actually take Maca because I have really bad acne and unbeknownst to me, it was because of the PCOS before my diagnosis and

Freya Graf:

the

Jennalea:

combination of having leaky gut with the PCOS. I'm not sure if the Macca helped Macca is more of a herb though. Being a nutritionist, we didn't study Maca per se. I know Maca because I've been using it for years. I don't use it anymore. Honey, go ahead. I actually never tried it myself. I might have to just go a little trial and get back to you.

Jennalea:

I mean, I don't know if I need it.

Freya Graf:

Lucky you.

Jennalea:

So my end to try to try it on someone who hasn't got a sex drive. I mean, that's been around for years, hasn't it? And it's, I think you're getting invited to the supermarket, as yeah. In the supplement aisle.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. It's become a little bit mainstream. Yeah. Cool. Alright. Well, that kinda leads me into eating for your cycle because you mentioned, excuse me, a couple of things around, like, seed cycling and yeah. I know I mean, it's not as common knowledge as I would love that there are separate stages of your cycle and obviously are producing different levels of hormones at different stages and therefore need different nutrients and, lifestyle factors and stuff. And I'd just love to hear a few specific, like, you know, dietary changes or foods or nutrients that are really supportive in each stage of the menstrual cycle?

Jennalea:

So ultimately, when we're in our first stage of menstruation is called the follicular phase. Now, this is only if you're not on any synthetic hormones.

Freya Graf:

This is

Jennalea:

if you're having a natural cycle is what I'm talking about here. So our first stage is the follicular phase. And day number 1 of our cycle is the day that we begin to bleed. Typically a normal cycle, I say, normal is a textbook and what the expectation is, a woman will bleed for 3 to 7 days. If she bleeds off, more than 7 days, we'll get 10 to 14, we would be considering that the ovulation, there wasn't a real ovulation that happened to for that bleed to happen. So it'd be like, okay, there's an issue with ovulation, and we would need to investigate that. After the 3 to 7 days of a normal cycle of bleed, we're still in the follicular phase and estrogen is on the rise. So we'd be looking at foods that support our estrogen, such as calcium.

Jennalea:

Calcium is really important. Vitamin D in that part of the cycle as well. Your hormones, they really need help with being recycled as well at the same time. So during that time of any time in the cycle, we're looking at bringing in nutrients that support our liver. Our liver's responsibility is many, many, many things with recycling and eliminating. But one of those recycling and elimination processes is hormones. And what happens is our testosterone and estrogen we don't actually need anymore. It binds to bile and then it is excreted through the faeces pretty much.

Jennalea:

But what can often happen is someone is having issues either with their liver or insulin resistance. Is it holding on to too much of these hormones and causing a cascade of issues. And so as estrogen is on the rise in the follicular phase, calcium, look, you don't have to have a dairy dairy in your diet to get calcium again. That's why I think seed cycling is so cool because actually you get a lot of calcium, protein, fat, even some amigas in some of your seeds. And so during that first phase, sorry, Siri just decided to pop up on my computer. In the blink of a phase, you know, we can bring in pepitas, so pumpkin seeds, and pumpkin seeds are really great because they also have a lot of zinc in them. And we want to see zinc supporting the menstrual cycle as well. And then as we go from follicular phase towards ovulation, testosterone begins to rise.

Jennalea:

But there's only for about 2 to 3 days normally, unless again there's issues like PCOS, we'd see 2 higher androgens in the body. In this time. And that could be anywhere between day 12 to day 16 of the cycle. Ovulation happens and that's when the egg is released. And so then we're starting to bring in things like flax seeds to the diet, flax seeds. Sometimes you'll see like LSA. So linseed, sunflower and almonds are crushed up. So linseed and flax are actually the same thing.

Jennalea:

More commonly called flaxseed, though, unless it's l s a and some people like to sprinkle that, say, on porridge or in a smoothie, on a salad. Flaxseed is a really good source for people who are on a plant based diet to get some omega 3 in. However, the process, once you've eaten that form of EPA DHA to get to what we need it to be to break it down, it is a very long process in the body, whereas sources like salmon, which is another really great food to be eating during your cycle, It has a really easy access to its EPA DHA. Once it's been eaten, there's only about 1 or 2 chemical processes in the body, whereas flaxseed, we're looking at about 4 to 5. So by the time we eat it, it takes and if we're having absorption issues, then that's an issue in itself to even get what we need from that food. These awesome thing about seed cycling to your talking about, that is actually the fiber in the seeds and fiber being really important again to help bind excess hormones along with the bile to excrete from the body. So fiber is really, really crucial in any time of the cycle, but particularly around that ovulation sort of phase as we drop into our luteal phase after ovulation. So it could be anywhere between day 15, day 17.

Jennalea:

As we pop into the littile phase, progesterone is on the rise and the key nutrient to support progesterone is B6. B6 filtering at grass fed meat. So beef, lamb, chicken, wild caught fish, eggs, again, nuts and seeds, nuts and seeds. You just can't put anything past them how good they are for our hormones. And I think some people go a little maybe too nutty on the nuts. With considering here per day, just like a palm size serving and that's plenty. So as we are in the littial phase, and I'm sorry, the progesterone is on the rise. B6, definitely the main one.

Jennalea:

Zinc still shows up, and we're looking more towards some sunflower seeds and sesame seeds. And look some flower seeds, Sesame seeds, just like pumpkin seeds. We still have that zinc pitcher as well. There's some magnesium there and we want magnesium as we move towards the blade because after Lydia, we go back to bleed, because our body is having so many contractions and that's how we get the cramps because we're literally contracting. So the endometrium or the uterine lining can shed and that's produced by hormone like molecules called prostaglandins. And so while we're going into that phase where progesterone has come into the rise just before the blade progesterone drops because it recognizes, well, you're not pregnant And then we shed the wall. We need anti inflammatory food. So again, salmon, flaxseed, walnuts is another really great one because again, we have that really good balance of omega 3 to omega 6.

Jennalea:

We can bring in some avocado, but there is a little bit more omega Omega 6 than there is Omega 3. So that would be better more towards the follicular phase. Foods that is really nourishing in high protein. So if you are a meat eater, quality meats, eggs, cheeses, yogurts, coconut yogurt, For those who are on a plant based diet, lentils, legumes, chickpeas, lentils are really good because lentils also really help with detoxification pathways. So helping clear out anything that is excess and unnecessary. Definitely important to have iron rich foods, particularly around your bleed. Again, the most bioavailable source of iron would be your red meat. But if you don't eat red meat, then you'll be looking to source it either from eggs.

Jennalea:

If you don't eat eggs, plant based. And if you're having a plant based diet, it's important that you're eating iron rich plant based foods with vitamin C to absorb the iron. And just on that, a really great source of iron for those who are not eating meat or eggs would be spirulina. And you can just pop that in a smoothie, pop your sunflower, sesame seeds, your pepitas, and you know, you've got a really nourishing. Yeah, obviously, with a bit of fruit good to go because you got your fats and your protein in terms of the bleed to vitamin C. And I did touch on that with adding that to the iron. But vitamin C, along with bioflavonoids, which is helping with the vitamin C absorption in the body, is also really beneficial for the endometrium. Vitamin C being an antioxidant in the body, so helping fight any free radicals and keeping us really healthy, good for our immune system.

Jennalea:

But the issue with vitamin C is a lot of people think, oh, I'm getting really sick or I was told I need to eat a certain amount of vitamin C. I'll just take a supplement. But we need to ensure that on that supplement that it does have the bioflavonoids for the absorption of the vitamin C, which not every ascorbic acid, which is vitamin C supplement has. But if someone wants to have PCOS and maybe they know it or they do know it, regardless when a woman who has PCOS and if she has the insulin resistance, which is very common, there is that metabolic syndrome line of PCOS. When we take an ascorbic acid, it actually is processed in the body like glucose. And so it's not really ideal for those with PCOS. They wanna stay more towards, foods that are rich in vitamin C.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Amazing. I mean, I always try to opt for the food the food source of whatever nutrient or vitamin that I'm sort of going for. And, like, vitamin c is a pretty easy one. I think some some things you do need to supplement, especially if you're on a plant based diet. But vitamin c, I mean, it's in a lot more things than people think. Like a red capsicum, for instance, has more vitamin c than an orange. Correct.

Freya Graf:

Correct me if I'm wrong. I've just been, like, telling people that my whole fucking life. Cat food is

Jennalea:

a really, really great option. Absolutely. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

I mean, strawberries, like, chuck them in your smoothie with the chlorella or the spirulina. Yeah. It's, it's always my first choice if I can get get things through food. I feel like they're definitely, you know, absorbed by the body a bit more easily and, cool. Okay. That, that was a lot. I wish I was writing that down. I might, I might jot some stuff down.

Freya Graf:

I'm actually creating a, a poster that's gonna have a whole, a whole list of foods for each stage of your cycle so that you can just check it on your fridge and have a look at it and go, oh, cool. I'm going to eat some pumpkin seeds today and feel like I've done something good for my body and my cycle. So yeah, Two

Jennalea:

tablespoons daily, 2 tablespoons.

Freya Graf:

Epic. Oh, that's not much, is it? Yeah. Great. No.

Jennalea:

And it's really, like, I love pumpkin seeds just even on a salad that's I always put pumpkin seeds on a salad. It's just easy.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Yeah. I have, like, a jar that I put sunflower seeds, pepitas, hemp seeds, usually some, like, crushed up walnuts or, you know, bee pollen or whatever if I wanna be bougie. And I just sprinkle that on fucking everything. Like, everything's savory, sweet. It just goes on everything. And, yeah, it's an easy way to

Jennalea:

just get it into you.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Very good. Yeah. Amazing. Well, I'm gonna interrupt this trajectory for a second to just slot in the segment that I call get pregnant and die. Don't have sex because you will get pregnant and die. Don't have sex in a position. Don't have don't have sex standing up.

Freya Graf:

Just don't do it. Promise? And I don't wanna put you on the spot. So if you don't have a story, I can totally just wheel one out. That would be a change of pace because I usually ask guests this, but I think I should start contributing as well. And basically, this segment's about, you know, a story or an example of how sec your sex education just failed you. And my, I mean, there's endless ways that my sex education failed me, but a really funny one that I have is I swear, I remember we were putting condoms on these like fake bananas that opened up and had penises inside them. And just getting, like, it drilled into us. How absolutely, like, just so easily you could get pregnant and you need to just, like, double bag that shit.

Freya Graf:

And, you know, I was terrified of getting pregnant, absolutely terrified. And they didn't tell us that actually you can only get pregnant for, like, a very small window in your cycle. And so I was just like, holy fuck, I can't be too careful. And I'm pretty sure I was even on the pill when I first had sex. Like I was sort of attempting to lose my virginity, but I made my boyfriend at the time wear 2 condoms because I was so afraid that one would break and they were like, it was just, like, so ridiculous. It was one of those party variety packs where they had flavored ones and colored ones. And we used these glow in the dark ones, which were just like thick as rubber gloves, I swear. And I mean, 2 condoms is actually like a way higher risk of breaking because they're kind of rubbing on each other.

Freya Graf:

And, anyway, it just it was a bit of a disaster. I it didn't even happen that night. We we couldn't make it work. But, yeah, that, that's my story about why my sex education, sort of fell short.

Jennalea:

Oh my gosh. I feel like now, I might even give you my too much info, my TMI in one with my poor sexual health education. All right. All right.

Freya Graf:

All right. Well, let's sleep into TMI.

Jennalea:

Well, no. It's funny about those. It's so funny how you can your experience of, like, thinking I must double bag this, whereas my experience was, like, I don't remember learning about that to that depth that I was scared of not doing that or and I feel like, you know, I remember going on the pill, I think I was at 17. So I think I was on the pill from 17 to 19. I wasn't on a very long, I kind of knew from an early age that it wasn't right for me. And I knew it was making me depressed and bloated and all the things. And I was like, no, I don't need this. And I was quite lucky to regulate my cycle early on.

Jennalea:

But I but I remember, though, I really liked this guy and we talked we we like you said date and we said talk on the phone every night and we were just thinking of being really good friends, but there was some sort of crush there. But we're really young. Like, I think I was nearly 16 and he was a year older. And, 16 and he was a year older. And, I said to him, like, I want you to be my first. And he's like, Yeah, let's do it. Like, let's be each other's first. And so we were all hanging out as a house one day.

Jennalea:

And now I'm worried I'm giving too much information away. And we went in and we went into the bedroom and we're just like lying on the bed. And he was like, just trying to, like, stick it in. And neither was new, like, okay, actually you need lubricants. You need something that makes you wet. You need foreplay. I mean, this is like a Virgin here. You can't just put a penis in and like, you know, so obviously we didn't have sex.

Jennalea:

But what made us think that that could have worked? I don't know. Like, again, maybe it's just a real naive, innocent teenager experience, but I don't remember anything about sex ed in like saying this one sex is about pleasure to how to have you know, I'm sure there was things about safe sex that must have gone even over my head because I'm pretty sure I got chlamydia at age 17 from an ex boyfriend Oh, no. I'm going to the doctor's antibiotics, and she was not impressed.

Freya Graf:

Oh, God.

Jennalea:

Yep. Got the clap. Luckily, antibiotics cleared that up. And then, you know, here we are lying in bed, like, just thinking that it was going to work. And we're like, yay, we did it. You know, good on us. Like pat on the back. No, that's not how sex works, especially your first time.

Jennalea:

Not very romantic either. So I don't know. I just think that there was so many, so many areas of mist. You know, I think even up until I was probably in my late twenties, I thought sex was and even though I always took my pleasure seriously and I was very open about pleasure and, you know, very comfortable when it came to sex. Like I said, I did want to study sexology early on, but I still think that part of me thought and maybe believe that sex was such a performance, you know, and as you get older and older and more comfortable and more confident in your body and with your sexuality, you know, you understand that actually, no, this, you can really, it's something to be enjoyed and it's a safe place and it's, it's something to be enjoyed and it's a safe place and it's about communication and far as more about the brain than it is even about the clitoris. Let's be honest. But school, it's not like I'm trying to remember like what they must have, what must have been the biggest red flag. Like, you know, if you have sex, you will fall pregnant and die.

Jennalea:

But I don't remember them giving us any like, don't think they even gave us out any free dinners. I think that I really think that, you know, and I hope I should actually ask my sisters who one just finished high school what sex ed is like now, because there just needs to be some empowerment and understanding that teenagers are going to have sex. So if you can teach them about safe sex and it's okay to know what is okay, I think you're going to really help that self respect long term as well as sexual sexuality.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Don't even get me started. There's there's a lot of room for improvement, and it would completely change the whole fucking world. I mean, it is starting to happen. I think it's gotta be a damn sight better than it was when we were in school or when our parents were in school. But, yeah, that that sort of shift can't happen fast enough in my books. Yeah. Oh God.

Freya Graf:

I totally relate to that story. I, we, we like, we tried, we started trying to have sex on our 1 year anniversary. Like we held out, it was this big, like special occasion. We were like 16 or something, got a bloody hotel motel room in this little country town that I'm from. It was so bomb. We went to the pub for dinner. And, and, yeah, it was just devastating. Like, we couldn't get it in.

Freya Graf:

The double condom action was just, like, so yeah. It was tough. And then I think he ended up crying a little bit because he was just so disappointed because the condoms are strangling his skin. This? Yeah. Yeah. And he just couldn't give an erection because there was so much pressure and the condoms were just like Oh. Yeah. Totally strangling his dick.

Freya Graf:

And then it took we just, like, attempted a lot until I was, like, 3 months later that we finally got it in and we, like, high fived and we're like, holy fuck. We did it. This is it. This is sex. And, like yeah. It's just it's funny. Yeah. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

That hurts. I don't know about this soul sex thing. I feel like a grown up now and all, but, like yeah. Yeah. It's such a funny one. Well, I could talk about sex forever, but just with the interest of keeping this succinct, I would love to chat about PCOS. So it's, you know, it's a complex issue. I know it can fall into several different categories, which will then, like, affect the treatment strategy and stuff.

Freya Graf:

But can you tell us a bit about what what is PCOS for those that don't know? And then let's roll into roll into that.

Jennalea:

So PCOS, some people say PCOS, it is polycystic over ovary syndrome or sometimes ovarian syndrome. And so it's a condition that is really common among women in reproductive age, and it's one that affects our endocrine system. So we consider an endocrine dysfunction, endocrine being our hormones, the major glands that are involved, you know, got our adrenals, our thyroid, our ovaries. And so there's this miscommunication almost in some women where their body is producing too much male sex hormones. So testosterone being the main one. And when this happens, it causes insulin resistance and insulin resistance can lead to metabolic syndrome. So we consider because not only an endocrine dysfunction, but metabolic dysfunction as well. And it can lead to hyper androgenism.

Jennalea:

Excuse me, my throat. And that is when we're looking at the high male sex hormones and that can look like some hair on the face for a woman. That's like a male hair, quite thick and black hair on your nipples, hair at the back of the thighs, just feeling hairier in general. It can be. We often see women who feel not even feel that look a little bit thicker. And again, that's the testosterone. You think of a male's body is the sort of that triangle shape from the waist to the shoulders, the upside down triangle. That's the testosterone.

Jennalea:

And so if a woman is starting to hold on to too much testosterone in her body and she has that picture of high testosterone from her PCOS. Her waist will feel a little thicker and it's less hourglass, which is the estrogen. Estrogen keeps the hourglass figure and she might feel thicker in her arms and thicker in general and harder to lose weight. Typically, people with PCOS do have issues with weight loss and they do sometimes gain weight. That feels a little unexplained, and it's just because of the hormones. But that's not every woman who has PCOS. Look, the stats used to say it affects 1 in 7 women. Recently, I did read that it's now 1 in 5, but whether that's globally or it was just in the UK, it was a UK article I was reading, but the stats are still quite high.

Jennalea:

But what the issue is is a lot of women living with PCOS, unbeknownst to them, whether they're on the pill and the pill is masking all the symptoms or that they just consider, oh, no, this is normal for me. It's normal for my period to be 38 days, then 32, then leave for 3 months and come back. And not everyone has irregular menstrual cycles, but that is definitely one thing that sometimes people have a PCOS, if not most of the time. You know, it's funny because we can be living a certain way considering, well, this is normal for me, but it doesn't mean that is normal. And so PCOS can also often be misdiagnosed. And there's a lot of criteria that has been considered for diagnosis. And now it's like, well, is that even going to help us with our diagnosis? Because you don't have to have cyst on your ovaries, which I call polycystic cyst. So there's little pearl necklace sort of looking cyst, which is all the follicles.

Jennalea:

It's not even a cyst. It's a follicle. It's an egg. And the eggs are building up around the ovary, creating this pearl necklace look, interfering with that cascade from ovulation to menstruation to hormone production and why some people get confused like, oh, yeah, I've got cyst on my ovaries. But that doesn't mean they have polycystic ovarian syndrome because there is a difference between having a cyst near ovaries, which is a pus filled or with the potential to turn into an abscess little mass. Or is it a follicle that has been released and then stuck to the outside of the ovary and then that chain of reaction happening there? So polycystic ovarian syndrome is quite a misnomer, really, and it's a bit too late to change the name now. They did change the name back in the eighties or something. It has been around since about 1935.

Jennalea:

I'm pretty sure they discovered PCOS. And obviously there's a lot more research into it now because of the statistics and because people with PCOS have that predisposition for type 2 diabetes. And ultimately the way we now look at PCOS is we need to treat it as if it is diabetes.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Yeah, because it's not actually like a PCOS isn't just 1. You know,

Jennalea:

I don't

Freya Graf:

know what you'd call it, disease or, like, thing. It's a it's just a collection of symptoms.

Jennalea:

Yeah. So in 2,000 and 3, the Rotterdam criteria was curated to go, okay, let's use this criteria to diagnose out of these 3 main criteria. If the woman has 2 out of 3, she has PCOS, one being the high androgens, another being a and legal ovulation or anovulation, which means infrequent ovulation or she's not ovulating, which can then obviously lead to irregular cycles. So that's sort of group as one and the third being polycystic ovaries. So she had 2 out of the 3. It was considered PCOS. So again, not every woman who has the polycystic who has sorry, not every woman who has PCOS has polycystic ovaries. She might have just really irregular cycles because of irregular or infrequent ovulation, and she could have really high androgens as a result of insulin resistance.

Jennalea:

Insulin resistance can lead to that buildup of testosterone in the body.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. And, and, you know, so many people don't know they have it because they might not have any major symptoms that they can or, you know, that they're too concerned about. But what are

Jennalea:

what are the consequences?

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I mean, so many people are on hormonal birth control, which will completely mask, you know, all of the symptoms that you would be aware of if you were cycling. So, yeah, what are the consequences of it being left untreated?

Jennalea:

So there's a higher risk for women with PCOS for cardiovascular disease. And that even includes adolescents, which is really scary. There's type 2 diabetes, like I touched on before, because of the picture of insulin resistance. And if that insulin resistance isn't looked after, you soon see it go to prediabetes to type 2 diabetes because often I don't know what the stats are off the top of my head, but I think it's around 70 or 80 percent of women. PCOS tend to be overweight. And the picture of that is the insulin resistance and the high testosterone. Endometrial cancer is another risk. So cancer in the endometrium, premenopausal breast cancer.

Jennalea:

So we often see a lot of breast cancer happening after menopause. But if there was this again, what can happen in PCOS is a build up of estrogen and we know too much estrogen is a high risk factor for breast cancer. Why that happens again, there's this there can be an issue with the way that the estrogen is binding to fiber and bile for excretion or the way testosterone and estrogen are trying to communicate. And there's a communication breakdown. So holding on to estrogen and making too much testosterone. Another risk. And a lot of people who do have PCOS, they do suffer from depression and anxiety. And that is because they're not having that natural flux of estrogen, which is anti a natural antidepressant.

Jennalea:

That's because perhaps for some people, the weight can cause, you know, the issues with their self esteem and their mental state. That's also consideration there because of the really, really hardcore PMS that many people with PCOS have because of the high testosterone and PMS is really, really linked to the way our moods are operating throughout the cycle and mood swings and feeling really high alert and highly strong and flying off the handle really like and not really having that, high reactive reaction anxiety as well.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Wow. So you definitely wanna sort that shit out. I'm wondering, it's not fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, also things like the facial hair can be, like you mentioned, self esteem and and body weight and things, which, you know, is tough.

Freya Graf:

And then the body hair can be really, yeah. It diminishes the self esteem and I mean, yes, none of it is funny

Jennalea:

and acne. You know, a lot of the living with PCS will have will have acne, whether it's post pill acne, because as soon we consider this post pill PCOS because of the high androgens, that surge of high androgens and inflammation. Inflammatory PCOS is one thing that's due to chronic inflammation in the body that leads to the overproduction of testosterone. And that again is another source of acne.

Freya Graf:

Yeah, totally. It's interesting because I, there's an amazing book actually that covers in so much detail, everything you can even imagine about PCOS, called the period repair manual by Lara Bryden. And she Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because I didn't know too much about it. But, you know, she outlines the 4 sort of main different kinds of PCOS, and then they all have different treatment strategies because they're sort of coming about because of different, you know, imbalances or things going on in the body. And I'm wondering, like, what what, so, you know, there's always the medical kind of intervention, Western medical model treatments, which I'd imagine are pretty, probably just throw some drugs at it, maybe get them on the pill, mask the symptoms, not take care of the root root cause.

Freya Graf:

What do you what do you kind of how do you tackle it with complementary medicine?

Jennalea:

You're right with medical, unfortunately, it's the whole name it, blame it, tame it. And for them to tame it, it's typically the oral contraceptive pill. And for some people that works because they don't have the goal of wanting to be fertile later on. But what we often see is people go to the doctor. Okay. You got PCOS. Here's the oral contraceptive pill. Take this until you're ready to have babies, come back and see me.

Jennalea:

And then you come back to see me. Oh, you're infertile because you've been on the pill with this long and you've got PCOS and we didn't treat the PCOS. So it's a whole cascade of issues from there. Not for everybody. Sure. But for a lot of people, particularly PCOS, yes, issues can occur from there. In complementary medicine, rather than trying to tame it, we're trying to manage it from its root cause, and we want the symptoms to continue to improve over time to the point where it's really manageable, it's really livable. And not only are our treatments sustainable and, you know, we see that longevity in the treatment that we're able to get get a regular period back and we're able to, you know, hopefully bring our testosterone levels down and keep everything feeling in sync again and our moods under control.

Jennalea:

So giving the body the right vitamins, the right nutrients to manage moods such as basics, magnesium, zinc that we touched on earlier, these really crucial ones for our neurotransmitters. So like you said, there are different sorts of PCOS. There's the post pill PCOS insulin resistance, which I touched on before, but any of these can cause insulin resistance as well. So we always typically see that picture. The inflammatory PCOS, chronic inflammation in the body leading to overproduction of testosterone, adrenal PCOS due to absolute fatigue and then there's that issue with our h p a access and we want to support a healthy, HPA, a healthy stress response. And magnesium plays that major, major role there. But basically when someone comes to see me and like, okay, I've been diagnosed with PCOS, maybe it was 13 years ago, maybe it was 3 years ago, maybe it was a month ago. From there I go, what was the diagnostic criteria like? What did what did your doctor diagnose you based on? Do they do bloods? Did they do an internal ultrasound? What exactly is going on? Do you have hair? Do you have moods? Do you have your period? So we take a deep dive into that first and then the major aims of treatment, you know, it can be anywhere between treating their metabolic disturbances.

Jennalea:

You know, if it's high insulin issues, insulin resistance, do they have an issue with the lipids or the fats in their blood dyslipidemia, we look at supporting a healthy hormone profile. So again, is there a buildup of estrogen? Can we look at ways to clear estrogen out of the body? So we always treat the liver. It's really crucial we look after the liver when we're working with our hormones because of its job. As I touched on earlier, if the patient is overweight, you know, it's look, it's really touchy because for me, I'm all about body positivity. But so the way I just need to remind people that there are so many studies that if you have PCOS, say by even dropping 5 kilos, if you've got 5 kilos to lose, this can improve your symptoms significantly. And so rather than trying to base everything on calories in calories out, it's like, let's just eat the foods we know are really healthy for us. The studies show that the most beneficial diet, which I don't like using their diet, but lifestyle sort of food choices in that moment would be to go ketogenic. So if that person is willing to go on a high fat diet temporarily, it's never long term.

Jennalea:

But to stay in that for at least, you know, maybe 3 to 4 months and they can go keto, that ketogenic diet really helps with the weight loss, but also the insulin resistance because we're not putting too many carbohydrates in the body to have that continuous insulin spiking. That's not necessarily for everybody. If some people are better having more carbs in the diet, some people aren't. But we have seen and it's only just a slight difference we have seen from going from Mediterranean diet like a traditional Mediterranean diet to Keto, that this Keto diet has higher success rates in people with PCOS and diabetes. Obviously, one of the most important things is reducing chronic inflammation because that is such a picture for most women of PCOS having that inflammatory picture. We always look at inflammatory markers such as C reactive protein, seeing what else the body is up to. You know, have there been any issues with bowels? We always look at the gut because that's where we're absorbing our nutrients, so we need to nourish the gut. Also, one thing I didn't mention would be to correct nutrient deficiencies.

Jennalea:

So whether that person has been on the pill and we need to go through and go B6, zinc, magnesium, other B vitamins, vitamin C. Are we correcting vitamin D? Vitamin D is a sign of insulin resistance. If we have really low vitamin D and really low, magnesium is also an issue that can cause insulin resistance. What I have seen in clinic is some women with PCOS who don't have a period will have a really high rate of iron and iron and zinc. They they compete for absorption. So we need to consider, okay, have you been getting enough zinc? Is there been that competition? Is it because you're not bleeding, you're not screening excess iron because excess iron can lead to its own amount of issues there. So we need to ensure that try and get that period back, get rid of some of that iron, keep a balanced diet, balance the nutrients out, correct nutrient deficiencies. If you also look after the gut and the inflammation and we support the stress response with the HPA access.

Jennalea:

So the adrenals, the hypothalamus, thyroid, we could take it all into consideration. So it's almost like you are as a nutritionist, you're a detective. You're literally playing the detective. You have this crime that has happened in somebody's body and you've got to solve the crime. And I think that's the issue with, the medical world. And it's not even the doctors fault that they only have 15, 20 minutes per patient. There's no way they can solve a crime in 15, 20 minutes. So that's where that name and blame attainment comes in.

Freya Graf:

Totally. Yeah. And it's just so it's chalk and cheese. Like when I first finally found myself in the office of a nutritional medicine doctor, and a naturopath, I just I cried because I just felt so sane and so heard. And they spent ages with me asking so many specific questions and just they were onto it, you know? They just really cared, and they were committed to doing the hard yards and, like, yeah, investigating and getting into the nitty gritty to, kind of, get to the bottom of it with me. And it just felt so supportive, and I felt like, fuck, yeah. I've got this professional on my team now. And it's not like I've just been, you know, like, chewed up and spat out of a doctor's office with a handful of drugs or prescription or whatever that I'm not gonna go fill out because, you know, I don't want I don't wanna take it.

Freya Graf:

But, it's so it's so worth it. It's so worth it, you know, like, going and seeing I mean, that's that's me. That's me. I I love I love complimentary medicine and functional medicine. It's just yeah. It's, the only way to go for me. But I suppose

Jennalea:

that you had that experience where you felt really seen as well, because that's what we hope people realize that it's tailored. We, we treat you as an individual and we, we care. We need to ask all those questions about you and do that detective work. So I'm so glad that you also had that experience.

Freya Graf:

Oh, yeah, totally. It's the best. It's so good. I I practically, like, save up my penny so I can just, like, go rock up at in someone's, you know, office and just talk about my like, I nerd out on this stuff. So I love talking about health and just, like, quizzing them about things, and I'm always sort of on a bit of, like, nerdy biohacking kind of vibes, actually. But, you know, I've had so much, like, gut health stuff in the past and also, you know, adrenal fatigue and bloody chronic thrush and BV years ago. Like, I've been through the wringer with a whole lot of health things that are actually so fucking common and so many women are struggling with. And they're often this really vicious cycle where it's it's really chronic and you can't get out of that loop.

Freya Graf:

And I feel like the only way to really get get off that, you know, that vicious cycle is to go and see someone who's gonna spend the time and really, really, you know, get to the bottom of it with detective work. And it does. It makes you feel really supported and, like, a bit of hope because I think you just lose hope when you're in the medical the Western medical system, and you're kind of just going back constantly for like another pill or like another thrush treatment or whatever. And it's just like, oh my god, this is not this is a band aid. And yeah. So it's great that there are practitioners like you. And also, like, if people can't see a, you know, it's not always accessible to see a nutritionist or someone like that. There are these great books like period repair manual.

Freya Graf:

Fantastic. If you've got any issues with your menstrual cycle, anything like endo or PCOS or yeah. It's really a really great resource. And it's so worth just looking into that and really like getting invested in your health because I think we, we can end up just kind of having this, you know, living with something for ages. And like you said, it's like they're normal. And so your baseline is just living like that, and you kind of forget that, you know, your baseline could actually be yeah. It's like you were saying rather than just surviving, and getting by, you want to be in optimal health and you want to feel as good as you possibly can.

Jennalea:

But that's, and that's the issue there, Freya, a lot of women don't know what their baseline is because they were put on the pill too young to actually get an understanding of what their baseline is. And so often you'll see women in their thirties and like, I don't remember, or I don't know that there's no chance for them to have known to even recall that information because if they've been put on the pill in their teen years, their body's still trying to figure out what their baseline was. And, you know, you talked about recurring baby and thrush. And the issue I've seen there in the past of having lots of patients with baby and thrush is this shame, this body shame. It's like, why is my body failing me? Why is this happening? And there's embarrassment around it, but there's nothing to be embarrassed about because these things, they are so common. They are you know, quote unquote normal because of where antibiotic use medication use. The pill can really, really increase the amount of thrust some women get. And then some people don't even understand what is normal for this, cervical fluid.

Jennalea:

And I think every month they're getting thrush, but really they're just ovulating. So there's a lot of, education, I guess, that needs to be done around these things. Yeah.

Freya Graf:

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And that that sort of segues me perfectly into just chatting before we wrap up about the pill because I've got some pretty, you know, strong opinions and I've done quite a lot of research about it. And I I, yeah, I would love to hear your thoughts. And if if you've got, you know, you must get patients that are coming to you for advice on how to come off the contraceptive pill. You know, what, where do you start? Yeah. Like hit me.

Jennalea:

I have people often sitting on the fence and that, I mean, look, it's not my job to tell someone to be on the pill or to not be on the pill. It's my job just to give them the information to make an informed and empowered decision. You know, and I think that's where it's sometimes people have that taken away from them sitting across from the doctor. It's not, hey, this is your decision. It's like you should do this. And not every doctor, but I often hear these sort of anecdotes from clients of, oh, my doctor said I should definitely be on the pill for, you know, I had a few pimples and I'm like, cool. The pill was designed for contraception. So why are we treating acne with the pill? That's not going to have a deficiency in progestin or that was synthetic hormones.

Jennalea:

Why are we treating these conditions with the pill? So I try to be delicate, but I definitely let people know my why I'm here to help them not be on it if they don't want to be on it. Because ultimately, the pill, when it was designed, it gave women the sense of freedom and empowerment. Like, yes, a big fuck you to the man. Like, I don't have to have a baby and I can still have pleasurable sex and, you know, Viva Love Vegas. It's like living living. And I love that that it gave women this sense of feminine power. My only issue is it's like, why do women feel that they can't have this power by having a natural cycle to really understand these mechanisms behind natural estrogen on its rise of being an antidepressant, natural progesterone on the rise of keeping us calm, cool, collected. These are really beautiful experiences if you allow your hormones to balance out naturally.

Jennalea:

And so the pill, I guess a lot of women, what they do get from it is convenience. And I think we're living in that day and time where people really, really love convenience. And the pill is one of those things like, I know I'd have to take this at the same time every day and I won't have an unwanted pregnancy because of I also know when my bleed is coming. I know how long it's going to be. I know how long the whole cycle is. It's like it's like a knowing and people don't want to navigate the unknown. They want to navigate what is predictable. And that's not everybody, but that's a sure thing.

Jennalea:

So the pill gives people that. However, the pill also gives us, an increased rate of breast cancer. So as I touched on before, because the pill has estrogen in it, unlike the other forms of contraception, this buildup of estrogen in the body can also increase our risk of breast cancer. So the high levels of estradiol can actually stay in the body. So we call that a high estrogen load and it causes damage to our alpha tissue in our breast. So again, we're looking at that breast cancer risk and it can cause tissue tissue, excuse me, damage to the beta tissue in our brain and our bone. So it's actually not beneficial for these parts of our body. Our Boobs, brain, bone.

Jennalea:

Remember those the 3 days? It's quite detrimental. So the stats suggest that even the 290% increase in breast cancer risk if taken for longer than 6 years. Now I have clients who have been on the pill for almost 20, so their rate of breast cancer risk going up is almost what, 700%. And that's that's just huge. It also increases cervical cancer risk. It alters our gut microbiome and the microbiome in the vagina. And again, that's why we can see often people who do have recurrent thrush if they're on a pill and they've been on the same pill for too long. It's that overgrowth of candida in the gut and the vagina.

Jennalea:

We know that Candida overgrowth can lead to brain fog, mood swings, lethargy. It can lead to bloating, sugar cravings. So it's never a nice thing. We have candida, but we don't need it to be overproliferated. Let's keep it down. The pill. What else can I address the blood the blood clotting risk that is some people with blood clotting disorders should not take the pill? And I feel like I've known people in the past who have had blood disorders and they've been on the pill. So I'm not sure again, where that information has come to them, that it's safe and that it's okay.

Jennalea:

And I just think the biggest area for work with contraception is we need more education. And maybe that does need to happen from high school or I don't know where it needs to take place. But there are a lot of women living in the dark and they just think at 13. And yeah, I see a lot of women in clinic who have been on it since the 13 and so young. The doctor said, let's put you on the pill. If a woman goes to the doctor and she's 17 and still hasn't had her periods, we call this primary amenorrhea. The doctor will again name it, blame it, tame it. Here's the pill.

Jennalea:

And the thing about the pill is that's not that's not your period. That is not your period because it's actually just a breakthrough bleed. It's it's not a real period. And the issue there is if someone has been on the pill since 17, 15, 13, chances are they've never had a real period. They could be in their thirties and they've never, ever had a real period. There has definitely been some pills such as Yaz, Yasmin. Look, this is just different classes and different generations, but they've been quite dangerous with their increase of clots and strokes, aneurysms, varicose veins, DVT. There's been lawsuits and all that stuff, but I'm not against pharmaceuticals because they have their role in society.

Jennalea:

Absolutely. But this is just an example of big pharma having so much money that it doesn't actually matter that they had a lawsuit of however 1,000,000 and they're able to just keep going. We have seen with the contraceptive pill, liver and bowel cancer risk, major side effects, thyroid issues. So sometimes people will come off the pill for however long they've been on it and maybe there's some thyroiditis or inflammation of the thyroid and that could be looking like extra weight gain, lethargy, the inability to regulate their body temperature. They might be clammy. This can impact not only the energy, but their bowel motions. So whether it's constipation or diarrhea, they're considering maybe some issues with ovulation. So then fertility, we have seen when people come off the pill weight gain or weight gain on the pill because, again, that buildup of estrogen, estrogen holds on to fluid in the body as well as fat cells.

Jennalea:

And something that's really, really, really crucial in my line of work is the pill. It drives insulin resistance. And so the irony behind that is someone will go to the doctor because they have been diagnosed with PCOS and the doctors say, we'll go on the pill. Okay, so the pill has this ability to drive insulin resistance. It's a little bit problematic because PCOS is looking at that metabolic syndrome in most cases, not all, but most I could go on. But it's

Freya Graf:

like, yeah, yeah, it's a lot

Jennalea:

to depletes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. But I think it's really important to know that how it does affect your gut microbiome because ultimately we have more bacteria in in our gut microbiome than we have cells in our body. And so they make such a huge impact in the behavior who we're attracted to, our likes, our dislikes that our gut microbiome is it's it's funny because we often hear like intuitively. But if we had this overgrowth of candida and it's just saying sugar, sugar, sugar, that voice that we could be hearing is not actually our intuition, but it could be our bacteria.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Totally. It's not your body craving it as a nutrient. It's like the bacteria that make up your biome craving it and totally running at the show. Like, they fucking control you. It's it's pretty yeah. I totally Absolutely. Have experienced that a lot.

Freya Graf:

And, yeah, and also the, you know, the chronic thrush and the baby and stuff, I think, because my disrupted biome and then depression and low libido, like, all of these side effects. They it's like when I got given the pill, they give you this little leaflet and it's like the fine print that you just don't even bother reading. No one really highlights it or, like, emphasizes it. It's just like, oh, yeah. You know when you get a form to sign, and it's like, there's heaps of fine print, but just sign it because you know you're gonna do it anyway. So, like, fucking whatever. That's how I felt about all the this sort of, side effects of the pill. And I did I had no idea.

Freya Graf:

I think most people that are on the pill, especially if you get put on it when you're young and you're kind of blindly just going ahead and doing it, like no one has a clue of these like massive, massive side effects. So like I'm just really conscious of time because we've gone a little bit over, but I'd love just before we finish to hear, like, where do you begin if someone does wanna come off the pillar, if they wanna start balancing their cycles naturally, where would you suggest that they start something really simple and practical or a word of encouragement?

Jennalea:

So know that it's really normal in those first three months of coming off the pill that you might not have a bleed. So not to get overly worried straight off the bat. Give it those 3 months and then consider getting your hormones tested because you need to give your body the opportunity to to balance out its natural hormones. So give it give your body some breathing space would be my best piece of advice. Don't go rushing and thinking, oh no, I've got this, I've got that because I've been on the pill. You don't know that. But you also don't know that you could still be fertile to be having safe sex if you don't want an unwanted pregnancy, please. I think my best advice is give your body some breathing space, eat a really clean, whole food diet rich in omega 3, magnesium, zinc, vitamin B6, vitamin B5, bioflavonoids.

Jennalea:

Consider a high antioxidant diet. So eating the rainbow. And then after 3 months, if there's still no bleed or it feels irregular or something doesn't seem right, either book in with a functional medicine practitioner, like a nutritionist or a naturopath, or even just go to your GP and ask for some blood test to do a full hormone profile. They might be resistant, but the best day like we have certain certain days that we would always recommend getting those bloods done on. But if there's no bleed, you'll just go on any day.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Totally. And if if people want to book in a session with you, for instance, where can we find you?

Jennalea:

I'm on Instagram. I have a website and my website links you directly to my booking system. So I try to keep everything quite cohesive. This is generally McInnis. It's, yeah, it's pretty straightforward. And I am, I'm there.

Freya Graf:

Beautiful. Yeah. And I feel like even if, if, you know, you're coming off the pill and after the 3 months, say you do get your cycle back, I I would still say, like, I would recommend going to a functional medicine practitioner because you're still you're gonna take it's gonna nutrient deficiencies that have come from being on the pill, depending on how long you've been on it. There's probably going to be some stuff that would really be beneficial to get some support and generally just reeled off a whole bunch of nutrients and things that you need to be ramping up, But I think when you go and you sit in their office and you kinda get a bit of a a game plan, people, like, generally can give you, like, actual foods and recipes, like meal plans or ideas. Like, they're very good at, you know, sort of working with your lifestyle, your schedule, your diet, and what you kind of already have in your pantry often and figuring out ways to, like, really practically and almost effortlessly get it into your diet, you know, like, even how you're saying before, like, you know, some people don't like bananas, but, like, fucking make a smoothie. Or, like, if they don't like bananas, we can work on doing, like, an avocado, like, chocolate mousse or something just to, like, sneak it into the diet and make it practical, make it accessible, make it, you know, not so daunting. It's like, oh, my god. I need to get more bioflavonoids.

Freya Graf:

Fuck. Where do I start? So, like, yeah, just treat yourself to a session with someone professional who's just gonna be able to go, alright. Let's roll up our sleeves. Let's just get stuck into some recipes and some foods and, yeah. Kind of hold your hand through that process. Cause it's very, it's very worthwhile and you know, you don't have to do it alone.

Jennalea:

That's it.

Freya Graf:

Beautiful. Well, thank you so much that you are such a wealth of knowledge and a total dreamboat to chat to. I'd love to get you back on for another episode. I feel like everything we talked about, we could do a whole, like, a whole episode

Jennalea:

on the pill and a whole

Freya Graf:

episode on, you know, so

Jennalea:

Yeah. So we can do contraception next time. Absolutely.

Freya Graf:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a passion of mine. And I I I think it just needs to be talked about more because the education piece is definitely key, and we don't know what we don't know, and GPs are definitely not telling us. So, yeah, that would be amazing. But for now, I'm gonna let you go, get back to being a mama and all around legend. Thank you so much for being on the potty.

Jennalea:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker B:

Beauty, see you later.

Freya Graf:

And that's it, darling hearts. Thank you for stopping by the labia lounge. Your bum groove in the couch will be right where you left it, just waiting for you to sink back in for some more double l action next time. And in the meantime, if you'd be a dear and subscribe, share this episode or leave a review on Itunes, then you can pat yourself on the snatch because that, my dear, is a downright act of sex positive feminist activism And you'd be supporting my vision to educate, empower, demystify and destigmatize with this here podcast. Also, I'm always open to feedback, topic ideas that you'd love to hear covered or guest suggestions. So feel free to get in touch via my website atfrerograph.com or say hi over on Insta. My handle is freya_graf_ymt and I seriously hope you're following me on there because damn, we have fun. We have fun.

Freya Graf:

Anyway, later labial legends. I'll see you next time.